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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need. |
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#1
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Can i use tempered steel as stock?
Was looking to purchase 5160 to try a throwing knife, but it was stated that it was
"Mill Hardened and Tempered". What does that mean? Also, is there any company that would ship small amounts of stock all the way to Singapore? (somewhere in S.E. Asia) |
#2
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Afterburner...Yes, you can use hardened and tempered steel to make a knife, but doing so is ill advised.
When the distributor states that the steel is mill hardened and tempered, it means that the steel is already hardened and tempered to "knife state" when you receive it. While this might sound ideal to you, the chances are that by grinding the knife profile and sharpening steel that is already hardened and tempered, you will work much harder, and use more abrasives in doing this. The probability is that you will probably alter the hardened and tempered state of the steel in the process making it un-suitable for use as a knife. I suggest you read up on making a knife and when you're ready to take the plunge, order your steel from any one of several reputable dealers who will provide you with what you want and need. At that point, you can do whatever you need to do to the steel, and with 5160 it is easy to do your own hardening and tempering when the knife is ready for that evolution. While this might sound intimidating, it is a far better approach and you will be much more likely to succeed....it is not nearly as hard as working with steel that is already hardened and tempered. Last edited by Ed Tipton; 12-11-2012 at 05:17 AM. |
#3
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Actually, throwing knives are better suited to being "not" heattreated. They take a lot of impact abuse and a typical using-knife heattreatment is a little brittle for the run of the mill throwing knife. Alloy issues won't really matter.
If you can find or have access to some old auto leafsprings, cut and shape one out of this. Don't worry all that much about the HT....better to bend than break. I've made many out of leafsprings, rebar, hayrake tines, etc. They are not cutting knives so edge holding abitlity is not all that important. __________________ Carl Rechsteiner, Bladesmith Georgia Custom Knifemakers Guild, Charter Member Knifemakers Guild, voting member Registered Master Artist - GA Council for the Arts C Rex Custom Knives Blade Show Table 6-H |
#4
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If holding an edge doesnt matter, would steel like 316 stainless work? I have easy access to that and various mild steels, or will those blunt wayyyy to fast to be even used for that sort of work. That said, i may be able to get leafsprings
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#5
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I don't have any experience making them but, being a fan of knives for several years, I have noticed there are two basic types of throwing knives. If it's a dedicated throwing knife it probably needs hardened very little or not at all. Some people/manufacturers do make a more general purpose type that seems to be intended for either throwing or rough cutting/chopping. The ones like this I have seen have usually been simple carbon steels at about low to mid 50s rockwell hardness. Like I said though, this is all observation and not personal experience.
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#6
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O1 or 5160 with a spring temper would be good for a premo throwing knife, but mild steel is also a very good choice, in my opinion. However, in my experience mild steel is tougher to work because unless I'm mistaken its harder than annealed knife steel.
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#7
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I imagine the 316 would work, but a little soft for my taste. Since I forge my blades to 90%+ before finishing, never really noticed an issue with grinding mild steel to any extent so I would defer that judgement to the dust makers.
I'd lean toward the leaf spring (5160 +/-), just for the toughness over mild steels or the 316 SS. Point still needs to be tough. O1 is too good a blade steel and too expensive to waste on a throwing knife, unless you are a professional tosser. __________________ Carl Rechsteiner, Bladesmith Georgia Custom Knifemakers Guild, Charter Member Knifemakers Guild, voting member Registered Master Artist - GA Council for the Arts C Rex Custom Knives Blade Show Table 6-H |
#8
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Yay, got a leaf spring. Roughly 8mm thick, which is kinda what i wanted (and who can complain when the steel's free). Going to be busy for a while though, so i dont think i'll start on my knife just yet.
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#9
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If you need to straighten it, build you a nice little hardwood fire. Once you get a good set of coals going push the spring down into the upper level of coals and add a little more wood. Let the fire burn out on it's own and leave the spring in the ashes until morning. Should be able to knock the curve out with a big hammer. The steel will also be alot easier to file/cut/grind to shape. Probably the quickest easiest way would be with a side grinder and cut off wheels, followed by ginding disk to rough out the final shape, then to files or belt grinder for finishing up. All can be done with the side grinder with practice.
After using/throwing it a bit, you decide you need to heattreat the blade to make tougher (which is doubtful) get back on here and ask. Something you can easily accomplish with minimal tools and effort. __________________ Carl Rechsteiner, Bladesmith Georgia Custom Knifemakers Guild, Charter Member Knifemakers Guild, voting member Registered Master Artist - GA Council for the Arts C Rex Custom Knives Blade Show Table 6-H |
#10
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I am currently considering cutting the outline of the blade, then heating the blade up in a toaster and pressing it flat instead. Would that do?
I currently do not have the space to burn a large fire, or leave it overnight. |
#11
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Toaster will not get it anywhere near hot enough to take the bend out.
Once you have the blade cut out, depending on overall size, someone with a good oxy/acet rig might be able to heat it enough with a rosebud tip to allow you to straighten it. (We're talking 1400 to 1500 deg F not 400 to 500 deg.) __________________ Carl Rechsteiner, Bladesmith Georgia Custom Knifemakers Guild, Charter Member Knifemakers Guild, voting member Registered Master Artist - GA Council for the Arts C Rex Custom Knives Blade Show Table 6-H |
#12
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Ah, just checked and apparently charcoal hits that sorts of temperature. How do i know when to stop heating or when i am overheating?
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#13
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The charcoal will work. Don't think you will have to worry about overheating, unless you have a blower hooked up.
Couple of tools you will need: SAFETY GLASSES! and leather gloves (unless you are a tough guy); BBQ grill that wll accomodate enough charcoal and the entire blade; large set of long handled pliers or sturdy tongs that you can safely pick up and move the steel once it's hot; medium large hammer (1.5#-2#) with a reasonably flat face; good clean flat surface - nonflamable; a place where you can get all this together in close proximity. Get a good bed of coals burning, don't be stingy with the charcoal as the steel will pull a lot of heat out fast on a thin bed. Lay the cutout blank flat on the coals and work some of the surrounding coals up around and over the blade. You may have to fan the coals a bit to reach this level of heat. Watch the color of the blade, when it changes from dull red to a brighter red remove and lay bowed (high) side up on a solid flat surface of smooth concrete, stone or steel....any good smooth flat surface will do. Move quickly as it will cool rapidly. Hammer tap with solid blows (but not gorilla blows!) the bend out at the high point, check for straightness; repeat if necessary until straight; set back in coals and let them burn down until steel becomes cool to touch. Do not cool in water!. The steel will be reasonably soft to work now with handtools. There will be a certain amount of scale on the steel surface that will need to be removed if you plan to use files. A side grinder will get this off or you can soak in white vinegar a day or so and take off with a wire brush. Recommend a dry run or two to get the steps/logistics down before firing up the grill. Especially the handling of the "hot" steel steps. This is relatively primitive and will not produce what one would call a serious knife blade, but for a throwing knife it should work fine. There are plenty of alternate ways to do this, but this is pretty simple. __________________ Carl Rechsteiner, Bladesmith Georgia Custom Knifemakers Guild, Charter Member Knifemakers Guild, voting member Registered Master Artist - GA Council for the Arts C Rex Custom Knives Blade Show Table 6-H |
Tags |
5160, art, auto, bee, blade, easy, edge, files, fire, forge, grinding, hammer, knife, knives, made, make, making, sharpening, simple, steel, temper, throwing knives, toughness |
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