Howdy

[Richard Glenn]

Howdy everyone.
My name is Richard and I will be attempting to make my first home made knife soon I think. I've tried to collect knives for a while not and have consistently not had enough money or really even somewhere to buy a good knife and have ended up with an interesting yardsale collection. I figure if I make my own though it could end up a bit cheaper and I could just make whatever I thought looked and worked good instead of waiting for a good deal on a knife that's close.

So I hope to buy some steel soon and take it slowish for my first try at a knife. I would like to take pictures as I go and get advice on anything and probably post a few questions along the way if that's alright with y'all. Hopefully when/if I finish a second try I'll have a decent looking knife with help from what seems to be a good group of very helpful people that are on this forum.

Thanks
-Richard

[Ray Rogers]

That's what we do here so ask away when you're ready. As for making being cheaper than buying, I have often told the story of how I decided to make my own rather than pay $600 for a knife I liked. That decision cost me about $30k after all was said and done ...

[Richard Glenn]

For now I plan to use files for most of it.
Though I have a question already. "What to use for pins?" and "What to use for bolsters?"

It being a friction folder I know will at least need a pivot, a stop pin, and then another two or four for the handles and spacer. Since I was thinking to use steel from the same piece as the blade and spacer to make bolsters I think brass pins would look idiotic and most the stainless I've found are screws instead. Any suggestions on either thing?

[Ray Rogers]

Pin stock has to be something soft enough to spread easily when it's peined so that most often means brass although it can be done with mild steel or even stainless pin stock. As a rule, friction folders do not have bolsters, stop pins, or even spacers. They are the simplest form of folders and usually consist of a piece of antler or wood with a slot cut in it (for the blade to fit in) and the blade which pivots on a brass pin. The tang of the blade is extended so that it fits over the handle when the blade is open, thus no stop pin. There is no spring or locking mechanism of any kind. Of course, fancier designs are possible where the handle may be made of assembled pieces of various materials but the overall design is as I said. Being that this is your first knife, keep it simple .

Pin stock is available from any knife supplier but any hardware store sells brass rod and welding rod is various sizes....

[Doug Lester]

Richard, let me make an arguement against using old files. First of all you don't know what the steel in them is. Good files out there are made from something like W1, W2, or 1095. Others are made from case hardened mild steel that will not hold an edge after you have made a blade from it. You also didn't say if you were going to forge or not. Which is really forging and grinding as opposed to just grinding.

If you are going to forge then you don't have to worry about the hardness of the steel. If you are just going to grind then you will need to anneal or at least normalize the steel before you can cut and grind it. I all you have is an hack saw and files to work with then it will be a must to soften the steel before working with it.

A known steel is not all that expensive. My favorite is The New Jersey Steel Baron, aka Aldo, but Admiral steel also sells some blade steels in small quantities. If you want to get enough just of a knive or two to start with Jantz has a few steels

Also, how do you want to heat treat the blades. That will also impact on your steel sellection.

You didn't mention if you have done any reading other than threads on this board. If you don't have any reference material I would strongly suggest that you get The $50 Knife Shop and/or The Wonder of Knife Making, both by Wayne Goddard, and read them before you get any equiptment or materials. Some study ahread of time combined with discussions here can save you from making some expensive mistakes.

Doug

[Ray Rogers]

Doug,

I don't think Richard meant that he would make his blade from files, rather I think he meant he would use files to shape the blade as he has no other tools at this time.

Aside from that, those are two excellent books and they specifically cover how to make a friction folder ...

[Richard Glenn]

Yep, I don't have any way to grind the blade really other than using files. 1095 steel has been suggested to me so I'll be trusting that advice and using that for my first go.

I also am planning on a slightly more complex version of the friction folder. Everything I'm thinking of should be within my abilities since I've done some metal working and wood working in the past..

A mild steel. Would a nail work?

I know it's probably a good idea to go with simple but just cutting a slot and pinning a blade in it sounds horrible dull and tasteless. So I'll be trying a more complex build and if that goes wrong I should still have the blade (If I can make it in the first place) and can then stick in a slot.

I wanted to know if I should purchase pins/screws/rivets along with the blade steel so that I could go ahead and order it.

[KNAdmin]

That decision cost me about $30k after all was said and done ...

Ray...
Don't you mean, "so far"?

[Ray Rogers]

Richard,

As you seem to have some specific ideas about what you plan to do and how to do it then, yes, buy whatever pins, pivots, etc you think will work. Anything is OK if you can make it work (including a nail).

Alex,

Jeez, I hope not ....

[Richard Glenn]

Well I've just ordered the steel to start with. So I'm a far 'n a ways off from $30k. And Dear Lord I hope I stay this far away from it....

Partially because that's an awful lot of money and also because that order and fillin the tank of my truck up with gas'll put me back on broke lol.

[xspook2158]

Richard, First of all and welcome to the room!!

I think what Ray meant is that our hobbies cost us more money as we grow in experience.

Ray, Please correct me if I am wrong.

I started Fly tying when I was 10.

At that time we used whatever we could get.

I came came home several times to see my favorite neighbors dog bathed in burnt motor oil (mange Cure at the time) all because I cut off a little too many hair patches for my flies.

What can I say that dog had great looking and straight white hair ?

Now I have over 1000 different rooster necks , 500+ hen necks, and approx 50,000 hooks of verious weights sizes and wire type.

The deeper we get into any obsession the more it costs us.

Jeff

[Doug Lester]

I think Ray's comment about the $30 Ray's comment about the $30K was a bit of an hyperbole-but maybe not. Don't be concerned about what someone who's been doing this for a while has in their shop. I don't have a great array of tools myself but I started out with a whole lot less. My first anvil was a stump anvil that a 1 1/2" cube with a spike on one side driven into a 4X4 stuck in the the ground. I also started out with files and oil stones to "grind" and polish my blades. My first forge was a converted table top charcoal grill. Over about 5 years I have built a few gas forges, some of them simple gas torch units, built up a sellection of hammers and tongs, and have my third sizable anvil on the way. It's actually an 87lb block of steel to use as a cutler's anvil. I also saved up and purchased a Coote grinder.

Doug

[Ray Rogers]

I wish it were hyperbole but it's not. I tried to add it all up once and that's about the figure I got. It includes some renovation I did on a shop building that I used for 2 years and then moved away, and other expenses directly associated with my knife making efforts as well as the obvious machines and tools. It's really surprising how much money goes into building mods, files and other small hand tools, etc not to mention the expendable supplies we use. Just take my shop tour and you'll see the major machinery alone can account for about $20k. As soon as you decide that the knife you just made with files and sandpaper is good but you know you could do better if you just had X machine or tool you're on your way ....

[Richard Glenn]

I live with my dad still and he has a fairly decent shop in the garage. Most of it's wood working of course but he is trying to get some metal work mixed in as well.

I'm planning to figure out if I can get the scroll saw to work fro cutting out the knife blank. It's be much faster and make a better cut than the hacksaw if It'll do it.

[Ray Rogers]

Sorry, scroll saw will be worthless for cutting blade steel. I have a nice variable speed scroll saw, been in my shop for 12 years, and I can't find anything useful to do with it. I strongly suggest you don't even try the scroll saw for this purpose as the blades could easily break and/or pop off their supports. Always wear eye protection whenever you cut or shape metal with any power tool.

If you don't have a metal cutting bandsaw then a hacksaw will do the job - just don't make the mistake of trying to cut an accurate profile for your blade in one pass. Cut away chunks of steel from from your blade outline, then go back and remove any other pieces you can get easily. After that, grind to the finished shape with your belt sander, or file to shape with coarse files, or even an angle grinder can be used to smooth out the profile. Power tools make the gross removal work go faster but you can do the same job with hand tools and a little more time. Using the wrong power tool for a job it isn't designed for can have you spending your time in the emergency room instead of in your shop ....