MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > The Sheath/Holster Makers Forum

The Sheath/Holster Makers Forum This is the place to discuss all forms of sheath and holster making.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-10-2001, 01:57 PM
Dana Acker
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
A Kydex Question


OK, OK, I know you're bound to be wondering what in the world is this Neo-Tribal guy doing bringing up Kydex. But, let's face it, there are just some applications where the stuff is better than leather--not better looking in my opinion, but better. I've been experimenting with some more tactical type designs which I believe might very likely be able to pierce 8 oz. cowhide. Kydex seems a reasonable alternative, and is not out of fashion with a more tactical kind of blade. Besides, even an NT guy needs to broaden their horizons once and a while, visit the new millennium--stay sharp.

My questions are, from what type of animal do you get kydex, and traditionally what month is the hunting season? They're not those goat sized deer with the real long horns from Africa are they? Are they good to eat? Is the meat as tough as the hide? Sorry 'bout that. You don't have to be certifiable to be a blacksmith, but it has certainly helped me.

No, seriously, if one were wanting to get started with kydex, where should one start? I need some pointers on where to purchase the materials--good, one stop sources, and some basic instruction. Any advice?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-10-2001, 04:07 PM
JerryO13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Hopefully Jens will chime in. He can show you how to "skin" your kydex for that NeoTribal flair. Have you seen some of his lizard covered kydex?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-11-2001, 01:01 AM
ansoknives
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Well...I am sure there are others who ?can tell yuo how to make kydexsheaths aswell.

I do mostly pancake sheath..two pieces of kydex...one flat -one formed to the knife...I use heatgun to heat the whole piece...then mold to knife with cottongloves....sometimes I use foam...depends on my mood.....


I use eyelets from BladeTech..not sure if they sell them anymore.

instead of getting a nice rounded surface on the eyelets I whack them flat with a hammer....rough the kydex with sandpaper and put contactcement on kydex and skin...you can use ANYTHING...goat kangaroo gator lizard stingray papertowel...whatever to glue on...as long as it is the look you need...here is a pic...I typed this pretty fast so might have left something out...just ask




Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-11-2001, 07:05 AM
cgillock
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Kydex - endangered species?


Dana, have you considered wood or rawhide for the sheaths? I have used both & then you can attach any exotic hide to the outside you wish.
Also i don't think you can legally kill Kydex in NC. And they're hard to skin.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-11-2001, 01:39 PM
Dana Acker
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Kydex - endangered species?


Thanks Guys, I'm checking into the laws. Using wood and rawhide are both fine for more rustic type blades, but really do not fit a more tactical type blade.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-14-2001, 07:55 PM
Mike Snody
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Concealex


Hey Dana,
Nice meeting you in Winston.
Call Bladetech. Get concealex in .090" thickness.
Much better plastic than kydex. Much better memory and much stronger.

Get a block of foam from them as well.

Heat the concealex in an oven. I use a toaster oven.
Do not heat Concealex or Kydex to or above 300 degrees.

At 300 degrees they will both give off a gas that your family doctor really would not want you breathing.

Wrap Concealex around knife and press between the two pieces of foam. You can stand on the assembly.

A press works even better. I make mine with 8" C clamps.

Regards,
Mike Snody



Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-30-2001, 09:31 PM
Normark
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Concealex


Hey Dana...

Getting started into synthetics isn't too bad...

As with everything there are certian tools you will be needing..A slight learning curve...Most of the tools I use have been custom made or retro fitted to my needs,but normal shop tools will do the trick as well...

A couple of people have mentioned Blade-tech Ind for materials..Good place to get them from...

Mike pretty much nailed it down,, I however have a couple of suggestions and alternatives though...

Firstly,,head over to Bladeforums and do a search on Kydex/Concealex in the Shop Talk forum...

Theres a ton of info there,some of which is input from myself...

Get yourself a set of molds together..Thick plywood or 2X8" and cover them with two layers of blue sleeping pad foam...each side

The foam BT sells is good stuff,,but try staying away with as much stuff as possible that you have to order..Head down to Walmart and grab blue sleeping pad foam..A roll of that will last you a very long time...Use spray adhesive to glue your foam down...When I rebuild my molds I just fillet the faom off with a fillet knife and replace it..

On the bottom of one of your molds make a set of feet..2X4" standing up will do the trick..This will allow you to slip your clamps underneath..When I first started I used Quck Clamps..They allow you to get them on quick...Once you have the pressure applied so the knife doesn't shift inside,,then use C-clamps like Mike has said..

Standing on your mold will leave you with a sheath that has little or no defintion..You need pressure and lots of it...

I run three 1 ton custom made hydraulic presses that do the job exceptionally well for me...The more pressire you use, the cleaner the finished product will look...

As far as thicknesses go...I don't go anything over 0.80 for sheath bodies... I've done several 0.90 bodies before and it's just to thick and makes for really stiff draws...

I use 0.80 on big blades and 0.60 on smaller stuff.. Anything over that I find a bit excessive and overkill. On all of the tests I've done,,even cold weather,, I've only destroyed one sheath and that was from repeatedly driving over it with my truck..

As far as Concealex goes,, I'll back Mike up on that 110%..A much better product as far as sheathing goes..I wouldn't use anything else...

Anyway,,sorry about the diatribe..This is Definately a topic I'm highly interested in and pretty much opinionated on..

BTW

Mike,,your blades are Wild..

Any questions,,feel free to drop me a note...

ttyle

Eric...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-01-2001, 12:31 AM
ansoknives
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Concealex


Eric: Do you do anything to avoid the sheath getting too tight?...They look very cool with almost exact knifeprofile in the sheath....but it also looks like it touches the blade all over?....
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-01-2001, 05:58 AM
Normark
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Concealex


Hey Jens....

Ahhhhh.. This is the secret ingredient...

3-4 layers of masking tape on each side of the blade, layed on perfectly smooth and trimmed exactly to the blade is the answer to your tight sheath problems...

An Exacting fit like this, once the tape is removed will give you a Very slight buffer zone around your blade..It's all you need.

Hope that helps..

ttyle

Eric...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-01-2001, 06:35 AM
ansoknives
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Concealex


It does!...Thanks!!!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-09-2001, 08:44 PM
Mike Snody
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Concealex





Hey Eric, I read your post with great interest and realize that I should clarify a couple of things. Standing on the foam will not produce the results that a press will. For one sheath I would stand on it. If you plan on making more you need a press.

I cut strips of .250” mild steel 4” wide and 12” long and welded three 8” C clamps (evenly spaced) to these strips. In doing this you create a base that will stand on its own. One piece of foam sets on the plate the second is glued to a board. I built 8 of them so I can make sheaths in batches.
I prefer the rigid type foam Blade Tech sells over the softer blue foam but that is strictly a personal preference. I have made about 250 sheaths this year and am working on my second block of this material. You need to have a flat piece of Teflon or micarta to heat and press in between the foam to remove the impression of the knife after forming the sheath.

Eric is right about the .090” material. You must do something in the area of your retention point if you use the thicker material.
I use spacers in the area of my retention point (i.e. finger cut out or guard) they are about .050” thinner than the blade stock or guard.
If you do not address the retention area in some way this material will give you problems. You cannot let it fully compress in front of a guard or finger indentation.
You must also space your retention screw or eyelet based on the material thickness. With thicker material it will be farther away from the retention point. I do however prefer the .090” material in lieu of all other material I have used, including .060” and .080”; once again this is a personal preference.

You make good looking sheaths and I agree with you on all other points.

Regards,
Mike Snody
www.snodyknives.com

BTW here is the style of press I am talking about.








Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-29-2001, 09:21 PM
newtlivesay
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Dana Acker;
Dana I use an average of 365 sheets per year of KYDEX in .063, 090, .125, and .250 inches in thickness. We also sell KYDEX sheathing to other knife makers.

KYDEX is the trade name of and a registered product of the KLEERDEX Corp, and meets all military Specifications, etc.

CONCEALX is a trade name of BladeTech for a product known as BOLTRON. Boltron is less expensive than Kydex and meets most of the higher specification that Kydex meets. BOLTRON is the trade name and registered product of the EMPIRE Plastics Company.

BOLTRON works at a lower temperature and cools faster than KYDEX.

I have formed about 25 sheets of Boltron over the last few years, and found it to work at 325* F very well. Empire suggests that you not run Boltron over 335* F. The factory recommended temperature for most Boltron products is 290* - 335* F. The recommended temperature for working Kydex is 350* F to get the optimum forming.

Both materials begin to break down at temperatures of over 400* F and tend to give off some very nasty gases.

If you need KYDEX give me a call and I will get you what every you need. We no longer carry nor use Boltron, but I will be more than happy to turn you onto a supplier.

Newt Livesay
maker

dad-gum that JAVA script.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-31-2001, 06:47 PM
newtlivesay
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

One other thing that a knife manufacture told me about today that I had forgotten about in the specifications of the two products. He informed me about the fact that the porosity of the BOLTRON acrylic PVC material caused an over all moisture absorption rate much higher than KYDEX

He stated that he had formed the material at one time and found it unsatisfactory for their use. This is the same conclusion that we had come to in regards to using the material.

Even though the cost of BOLTRON is less than KYDEX the over all cost did not off set the lack of performance of the material we felt.



Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-31-2001, 07:03 PM
primos
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Hey Newt. Welcome to the forums!

Say, you're a pretty handy guy to have around. Good information. Thanks for sharing that with us.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-31-2001, 08:39 PM
Normark
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Hey Newt...

Interesting....

Can you explain "moisture absorption rate " for us a little..

I'm under the impression that Kydex and Concealex have little to No,, moisture absorption rate....

Other than a slight variation in molding temperature and working quirks,, I've found very little difference in the two materials...

I just prefer working with and using Concealex,, and by No Means do I find using Concealex as Sub Standard in the Least...

I would however like to hear more about your findings...

ttyle

Eric...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
blade, forging, knife, knives


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

(View-All Members who have read this thread : 7
dbrunson, hotrod77, J.W. Gross, Lee B, ONT, TCT-knives, teejay1980
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:59 PM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved