MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > The Newbies Arena

The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:58 AM
bobasaurus bobasaurus is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 35
Parts arrived, starting my first real knife build

I do a lot of hobby woodworking and stumbled across a folding knife kit at Woodcraft. After making it (with some fancy walnut scales), I found that I really enjoyed the process and started studying a bit. I finally bit the bullet and ordered a bunch of crap off Jantz:



It's too late in the day to get much done, but I came up with the outlines and started to rough cut out the blade, lockback mechanism, and spring holder/support from the O1 bar. Broke the first blade all of 1/4" into the cut. Maybe I'll finish the rest with cutoff discs. Hard stuff, this tool steel... maybe I should try to anneal it first, though I don't think it's been hardened.



This will be a fun start into knife making, I think.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-15-2013, 08:54 AM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
The blade broke because it's not the right tool for the job, Bob. That saw isn't for cutting steel, you need to be using a good hacksaw like a Diston with a bi-metal blade. You won't be able to cut a perfect profile with a hacksaw but you can get close, then clean it up with files. You'll need to redraw those outlines for your blade and lock since it will be impossible to cut those curves with a hacksaw (or with that delicate jewelers saw you're trying to use). I know you're just trying to be efficient and make your materials go as far as possible but don't - in the end trying to do things that way will just slow you down and cost more money....


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-18-2013, 07:41 PM
bobasaurus bobasaurus is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 35
The jeweler's blades did end up working, but it was slow going (and my technique isn't great). I used metal cutoff discs to speed up the process a little, too. You're right about being stingy with the blade material... I ended up cutting out the lock lever from a different piece to make things easier. Someday soon I'll get a metal cutting blade for my 14" bandsaw to make the process easier.

Now I'm grinding out the parts and getting things to fit. Having some trouble with the epoxy though... devcon 2 ton seems to not like sticking to brass, even with careful surface preparation (100 grit scratches), cleaning, mixing, and warm cure temperature for over a day. Might have to get a different, less-terrible epoxy. It sticks okay to the steel, though.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-18-2013, 07:45 PM
bobasaurus bobasaurus is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 35
Here's some shots of grinding and shaping the parts on my 8" slow-speed grinder and oscillating spindle sander:





Drilling holes:



Fitting the parts on a jig:



Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-18-2013, 08:00 PM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
Why are you concerned about whether or not Devcon - or any other epoxy - will stick to brass? It's best to think about glue as no more than a moisture barrier where knives are concerned. Glue does not hold a knife together nor any parts of a knife. If you will think about it like that you'll avoid a lot of trouble in the future.

You mentioned a metal cutting blade for your 14" bandsaw which leads me to believe your bandsaw is for wood. If so, you won't find any off the shelf metal blades to fit it - they make them different sizes for very good reasons. There are several important differences between metal and wood bandsaws, not just the size of the blade. If you want to cut metal with a bandsaw, buy a metal cutting bandsaw....


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-19-2013, 12:59 AM
bobasaurus bobasaurus is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 35
With epoxy, I'm looking for a little of both... adhesive qualities and sealing the unexposed parts of the scales. Pins and rivets are great for holding things together mechanically, but I would rather not have less-supported parts separating on me.

Good point about the difference between wood and metal cutting bandsaws. I'll research it more before I try. Aside from the blade material, it sounds like mainly a speed issue... I may not be able to slow it down enough with the stock pulleys.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-19-2013, 06:59 AM
Crex's Avatar
Crex Crex is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Acworth, GA and/or Hanging Dog, NC
Posts: 3,583
Follow Ray on this, you are taking the hard way to get results.
The 14" Band saw is way too fast for metal and it's bearings are not made for that kind of stress. You will wind up just wearing out a good piece of shop equipment. Money lost without good reason. Get a good hacksaw if you can't afford a metal cutting bandsaw and learn to use it. They have served the metal workers of this world very well for a long time.

"I would rather not have less-supported parts separating on me"...could you expand on this?
A well made knife should mechanically hold together with out any glue if necessary, so I do not understand what you expect from the epoxy.


__________________
Carl Rechsteiner, Bladesmith
Georgia Custom Knifemakers Guild, Charter Member
Knifemakers Guild, voting member
Registered Master Artist - GA Council for the Arts
C Rex Custom Knives

Blade Show Table 6-H
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-19-2013, 09:59 AM
Bowman Bowman is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 172
Thanks for the pics. It looks like you're off to a good start with what you have. As convenient and speedy as a metal cutting bandsaw would be, I've just been using a hacksaw and it doesn't take too long. Keep posting pics of your progress if you don't mind. A WIP is always interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-19-2013, 07:14 PM
bobasaurus bobasaurus is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crex View Post
Follow Ray on this, you are taking the hard way to get results.
The 14" Band saw is way too fast for metal and it's bearings are not made for that kind of stress. You will wind up just wearing out a good piece of shop equipment. Money lost without good reason. Get a good hacksaw if you can't afford a metal cutting bandsaw and learn to use it. They have served the metal workers of this world very well for a long time.

"I would rather not have less-supported parts separating on me"...could you expand on this?
A well made knife should mechanically hold together with out any glue if necessary, so I do not understand what you expect from the epoxy.
Good call, I'll give up on the bandsaw thing. I completely rebuilt mine from a 1950s delta model with new bearings, tires, trunnion, pulley, belt, guide blocks, inserts, blade covers, and blades... it's my baby for woodworking, and I would hate to destroy it. Steel-cutting hack saw blades and maybe good scroll saw blades on slow speed should work fine.

For the epoxy, I guess I am expecting too much from it. I'm planning on just pinning this folder together, instead of using any screw type rivets, so this relies on the epoxy strength to keep the layers from separating while grinding flush or in use (unless I peen the pins for better riveting, which may be the solution). This is maybe not the wisest course of action... I'm new to knife making and metalworking, so I appreciate all your input.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-19-2013, 07:15 PM
bobasaurus bobasaurus is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowman View Post
Thanks for the pics. It looks like you're off to a good start with what you have. As convenient and speedy as a metal cutting bandsaw would be, I've just been using a hacksaw and it doesn't take too long. Keep posting pics of your progress if you don't mind. A WIP is always interesting.
Here's an album of progress pictures that I'll keep updating:

http://imgur.com/a/9L65E

I try to keep posting updates.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-19-2013, 07:39 PM
cbsmith111's Avatar
cbsmith111 cbsmith111 is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Rush, KY
Posts: 238
Get a good high tension hacksaw, mine is a Nicholson and is probably my favorite hand tool, and some good bimetal blades. With the right blades and technique they cut anything up to annealed tool steel fairly easily. I also fi.d it therapeutic.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:06 PM
bobasaurus bobasaurus is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 35
Getting a good hack saw sounds like a plan. Any suggestions for which to buy? On Amazon I found this nicholson like cbsmith described:

Nicholson Heavy Duty Hacksaw Frame, 10 Nicholson Heavy Duty Hacksaw Frame, 10" Blade Length (Pack of 1): Amazon.com: Home Improvement

and a well-reviewed dewalt:

DEWALT DW3970 12-Inch High Tension Hack Saw Frame - Amazon.com DEWALT DW3970 12-Inch High Tension Hack Saw Frame - Amazon.com

Maybe a lenox or bacho frame would be good, too.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:33 PM
bobasaurus bobasaurus is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 35
More progress

Some more progress pictures. I tried to epoxy some brass shims on the bolster to match the blade washer thickness, but the bond didn't hold up to grinding the sides flush:



My Father recommended using superglue with a fixative/fast cure spray (which he uses frequently in jewelry to hold stones and metal), so I gave it a try. It ended up working pretty well:



After removing the pins, I was able to grind the sides flush (with only one re-gluing of a corner required) and quickly lap the surface flat. The superglue worked well enough that I tried shimming my lockback bar for a re-do on the fit with the blade:



It took me two tries this time, but the third gluing fixed the brass piece on really well. It held up to my light grinding and filing to get the piece flush. I then carefully filed it to fit the blade, and it came out really tight:



Next was cutting a slot for the spring in the bolster, and the spring itself:



After some fiddling, the spring mechanism felt just right. It keeps the blade closed and open tightly, and is easy enough to depress.

The next step is to make some scales, attach them to the brass liners, and figure out how to attach everything together and do some shaping.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-20-2013, 09:49 AM
Imakethings Imakethings is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Boone, NC USA
Posts: 293
Couple questions for you:

1. Did you HT and temper the spring? If not you need to before you put thing together.

2. Good trick on printing out your template and gluing, I do that on smaller/finer detail stuff so I have good lines.

3. Hack saws are good, but I love my angle grinder. Best and most abused tool I own. Use it to chop down the stock into rough shape, then go in with the hack saw.

4. For the frame, since you're having trouble finding the right way to get it to hold together to check the widths and such, get some very fine machine screws and nuts to hold it and the scales together, tighten em down, and check your dimensions to see if everything is right. Only set and pein the pins in place when you are mostly done. The epoxy is not what I would rely upon for holding things together, but it works great as a backup.

You're on the right track, keep us posted.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-20-2013, 11:41 AM
bobasaurus bobasaurus is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakethings View Post
Couple questions for you:

1. Did you HT and temper the spring? If not you need to before you put thing together.

2. Good trick on printing out your template and gluing, I do that on smaller/finer detail stuff so I have good lines.

3. Hack saws are good, but I love my angle grinder. Best and most abused tool I own. Use it to chop down the stock into rough shape, then go in with the hack saw.

4. For the frame, since you're having trouble finding the right way to get it to hold together to check the widths and such, get some very fine machine screws and nuts to hold it and the scales together, tighten em down, and check your dimensions to see if everything is right. Only set and pein the pins in place when you are mostly done. The epoxy is not what I would rely upon for holding things together, but it works great as a backup.

You're on the right track, keep us posted.
I bought the spring stock already tempered from Jantz. It works great. I actually do have a cheap angle grinder... maybe I could give it a try. Seems like the discs for it are pretty large for the small things I'm trying to cut out, though. That's a good idea with the small screws, too. I might just buy some thin screws and brass standoffs to use as pins in the future (like really small loveless-style bolts).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
art, bee, blade, brass, build, files, folding, folding knife, grinding, hobby, jig, kit, knife, knife kit, knife making, knives, lock, lockback, made, make, making, material, materials, scales, steel


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
starting in on my first knife!!!!! hondo76 The Newbies Arena 36 11-19-2012 01:27 PM
Nice little knife! - Arrived today! Santi Factory Knife & Mid-Tech Discussion 4 05-21-2005 06:22 PM
Brazilian knife just arrived!!!:) AndradeArtWorks The Display Case 6 04-01-2005 12:44 PM
1979 9yr old real first knife yendor The Display Case 3 06-24-2003 01:37 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:37 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved