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  #16  
Old 01-12-2006, 07:25 PM
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Yeah, but if you look you can find good deals on motors. I got 1.5hp DC with controller for $150 shipped to me. Amazing what you can find tucked away on ebay.

--Carl


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  #17  
Old 01-13-2006, 04:14 AM
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I don't know why everyone says Kmg's are a thousand dollars. Last time I checked, the platen package was $715.00. It is fun to kick ideas around. I really enjoy the grinder threads. Especially when we get into the homemades and the mods.


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  #18  
Old 01-14-2006, 07:43 PM
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This issue has been weighing heavily on my mind... and now that I've come into a little bit of money from my school grants, Ive been thinking about it more and more.

Hammerdown...i really thought about what you said about cutting out the Griz altogether because it's inevitable that the KMG will be purchased in the future, but if I were to buy the KMG, all I could do with it is look at the #### thing. Sure, the platen package is $715, but you have to buy the motor for close to 200. Might as well be a thousand dollars, and it would break me.

This is my logic right here....

KMG grinder with platen Package - $715
Motor - $200
Total = $915

VS.

Grizzly Grinder - $400
HF or Griz Bandsaw - $200
Drill press - $100
Steel and other supplies - $200
Total - $900

Sorry....I know the KMG is the best grinder around, but personally, as a beginner I'd rather get to work and get in some experience with some decent tools rather than sitting around with my thumb up my ass looking at a thousand dollar machine I can't afford to do anything with.
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  #19  
Old 01-14-2006, 08:22 PM
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Every time one of these threads opens, I have to throw in my vote for the versatility and compact nature of the Multitool 2. Now that getting belts is no problem, I'm a happy camper!

MT2 = $320 (TKS)
1HP GE 1750 rpm motor =$150 (tractor supply)
pullies and mandrel =$40 (tractor supply and Jantz)
Delta 59 1/2" band saw =$90 (Lowes)
Detla multi-speed drill press = $90 (Lowes)
dual-tube Poor Boy propane forge = $125 (Ebay)
30lb. propane bottle = $25 (on sale at Lowes)
regulator and hose = $30 (Ebay)

Total $870

It ain't KMG, but I got a heck of a lot more stuff for my $870 of rookie start-up money!
I have a variable speed grinder with 8" serrated contact wheel and a 9" pyro-ceram lined platten. Tracking rocks! I use the forge for HT and it will work for forging blades when I get around to it. Not enough for forge welding though. It's a great starting package which I am in no hurry to upgrade. I'm saving my tool money for a 12' x 24' workshop in my backyard (The wife's idea... she rocks).

Food for thought.


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  #20  
Old 01-14-2006, 08:26 PM
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I can see that logic. Does no good to wish in one hand. When you posted last I was sitting here contemplating this thread and thinking about starting a dream grinder thread. I have heard it said before that one should begin knifemaking by doing a few with files and sandpaper. Some people never stop doing it that way and some return to it for the relaxing, slow paced, hands on feeling of satisfaction they get. I guess we don't really need a grinder, we just want a grinder...lol. When I first started I thought I needed a contact wheel and was going to hollow grind. After I got one I realized that the direction I was heading did not even include hollow grinding. I don't even use my belt grinder that much. Slack belting a convex edge it about it.


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  #21  
Old 01-14-2006, 08:38 PM
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My first bevel was hollow. I did it with a 6" bench grinder and a coarse stone. I transfered what I learned there to the contact wheel and hollow is all I do, with the recent exception of two convex grinds. I'm scared to try the flat grind!


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  #22  
Old 01-14-2006, 08:41 PM
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Someone should make a miniature version of the KMG to function with 1" x 30" belts. I bet that would sure be handy!

New project! Time to head out to the shop!

If we could just get a contest sponser something like the Toast Cutter thread... Fully blown, hot-rod, 1" x 30"s...yea... that would be a cool one!


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  #23  
Old 01-14-2006, 08:43 PM
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Josh,

No one would stop you from this. But go into it knowing that as soon as you really use one of the more expensive grinders you will start to see where it isn't your skill level causing the problems on blades, but rather the grinder.

I do know where you are coming from. I started with stock removal, using a hacksaw and files. The blades came out slow, but I learned a lot.

From your list:
Drill Press: $40 (HF -- on sale every couple of months)
HF Bandsaw: $150 (again always on sale)

Also, if you watch you can find a good motor for less than $200. My 1.5 hp DC with variable speed controller ran $100. It isn't huge, but should work for now.

--Carl


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  #24  
Old 01-14-2006, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerdownnow
I don't even use my belt grinder that much.

GREAT! Now you can send it to me....
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  #25  
Old 01-14-2006, 11:14 PM
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I'll just throw it across the river. CATCH!


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  #26  
Old 01-14-2006, 11:42 PM
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It is hard to articulate what I am trying to say in type. Afordability vrs. quality. hmmmmm. That is a consideration and affects us all to a certain degree.
The KMG is not just a pretty paint job, heck theere ain't even no paint on them. The point I am trying to make is the quality of work that is obtainable in a short amount of learning time. Is it worth it to you to spend a little more now to increase the quality of your work, increase the value of your knives and get you into the limelight as a maker in the least amount of time? I have seen with my own eyes, Master smiths run across the field to grab Rob Frinks hand and pump it like a jack handle thanking him for making that machine. And that was after they had been mastersmiths long before they ever had Robs grinder. I think Tracy Mickley said it best just a few hour ago to CWP in the tool time forum.
"Carl, you are going to(have) a love affair with your KMG. I still do."

If you choose to slog along and learn slowly or in a different way, that is fine. I chose and went and still go that way myself. I am just trying to say. I drive an old beatup escort with wobbley wheels. It goes slow, but I get their eventually. It would be nice to take the corners with a Porche 911 tho.....haha Especially cuz I am late for work as we speak.


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  #27  
Old 01-15-2006, 12:05 AM
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Roc, I think I have the same problem articulating what I mean. I don't want to brow-beat someone, but I am trying to pass on expensive experience. Maybe if I run through my experience it will help some.

I started with the files/sandpaper and made good knives (first is in my backpack and used while hunting). After a few of those, I ran into a 1x42 homemade at a farm auction that came home with me. Thing sped up the process, but had issues with the platen (small and not square). This was a cheap fill in, so I worked with it a bit, and decided that I needed a 2x72. I went through all of the questions that the people in this thread are having, and decided that the Grizzly would be a good option. Worked with that for quite a while, moved from stock removal to forging, etc. Tuned that grizzly up to the point that it tracked, ran well, etc. I kept having problems with things like my plunge cuts, kept screwing up bunch of little things on the knives. Came up with ways of fixing them to be good enough.

I finally decided to push past this wall I was hitting my head on, and signed up for a bladesmith class at Bronk's knifeworks. Ed and Lyle did a great job with the class, and my forging took an order of magnitude jump in quality, skill, etc. We then got on the grinders (wilson and KMG). Wow! Just to feel a good grinder. All those little mistakes weren't happening. I knew I was going to buy a KMG at some point in the near future.

Got home, hammered out some blades and took them to the Grizzly. This is when I realized that the grinder was doing little things that the KMG and Wilson didn't. The belt would "jump" on me and wash out something I was trying to keep sharp. This is the moment of crystalization for me between the qualities of the grinders.

Sorry for the length of the post, but I hope it helps.

Roc, I do think Tracy is right. When I get that KMG up, the love affair will start. What is really cool, I built the table for it. That means it will be at the right height to fit me perfectly.

This brings up another point between the square wheel type of grinder and the 2-wheel like the grizzly. You wouldn't believe the difference it makes to be able to look down on the work from above (right down the belt). You can't do that on the Grizzly without taking out your face.

--Carl


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  #28  
Old 01-15-2006, 12:09 AM
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Just thought I would post where I got my motor and controller from

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll..._BIN_Stores_IT

He still has some available. I called and he pulled the motor from the fan. This took the shipping from ~$160 (freight) to about $54 (UPS). Would have been nice to have the fan and pillowblocks, but wasn't worth the shipping.

--Carl


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  #29  
Old 01-15-2006, 12:34 AM
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Man....I know I can get so much more stuff....But I seriously want to just go ahead and bite the bullet and get the KMG.

There is a battle in my brain right now...

"You idiot... you can get a grinder AND a boatload of other stuff for that kind of money..."
VS
"Dude you're not mechanically inclined enough to tweak the Grizz. It'll frustrate you to tears. Get the KMG and plug and play!"
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  #30  
Old 01-15-2006, 01:01 AM
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Josh,

Are you just starting out? If so, grab som steel, a hacksaw, and some files (be sure to get both coarse and fine files) and a pile of sandpaper from 50-60 grit on up. Get a bar or two of good carbon steel and give that method a try. If you have a harbor freight nearby, get that $40 drill press when it goes on sale (a drill press makes drilling pin holes so much easier).

Then put the money aside for a few blades. The speed of those blades will not be great, but the learning will be. This will give you a little experience while you let those demons run around in your brain.

And remember, it is not the destination, but the journey that gives the joy. So take your time and enjoy the journey for a couple of knives.

In the meantime, if you can try out a Grizzly, Coot, KMG, Wilson, whatever you can get your hands on, try it. You will then get a feel for the differences and what you like.

--Carl


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