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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 11-06-2012, 03:42 PM
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Hunter280man Hunter280man is offline
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Wood fininshing blues

Heres a newbies question about wood handle finishing. I'm fairly experienced with building traditional muzzleloaders (30 +) . But this is a new critter to me.

Im currently building 5 knives simultainiously. (yup....both feet, I do that alot ) In any case I'm playing with two basic types of wood that are unstabilized. Two blades will be getting African rosewood that I purchased nearly 30 years ago for building rifle nose caps and pistol grips. Two more are getting nice rose wood burl. And still the last (gift to a first year hunter)....has quercus alba burl scales.

Its the last one that has me a bit troubled. It seems to be a bit on the soft side.....How should I go about finishing this? I was thinking of after the alcohol based staining is dry I could try toung oil till a good finish is obtained...and then buffing out the blade/handle area. Am I on the right track?

I figured the rose woods would buff out fine after the stain is applied...but not certain. From now on I plan to get stained/stabilized.
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  #2  
Old 11-06-2012, 05:27 PM
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Another glitch! The staining of the quercus alba has revieled several filled, but softer holes resembling worm holes. YIPPIE...... Other than the "filled holes" it has turned out beautiful.
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  #3  
Old 11-06-2012, 06:28 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Wish I could give you some advice about that alba stuff but never heard of it. One thing I do know, no matter what finish you finally give it the wood will always be soft. You can use a mixture of sawdust and epoxy to fill the holes.

For those of us, like myself, who haven't got a clue about wood finishing nothing beats professionally stabilized wood. This is especially true if you want to use burls ...


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  #4  
Old 11-06-2012, 06:40 PM
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Isn't Quercus alba white oak ? I think that it should be stabilized .
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  #5  
Old 11-06-2012, 06:48 PM
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Quercus alba is white oak. Its too soft for handles without being stabilized. Its also going to have large voids called vessels, which many makers fill in.

Rosewood shouldn't need to be stained. Just sand to a high grit, oil, and buff if desired.

This is only my opinion, but I wouldn't use any burl unless stabilized. The random grain can cause very uneven moisture changes from ambient moisture within the same piece. I have a forestry degree so I know the technicals but I've never actually worked with it so someone else chime in for me.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:52 PM
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Thanks RR! I have always loved working with woods, But the stabalized wood seems like the way to go for knife handles.

I have no Idea even where it comes from, maybe south america?????...saw it on E-bay and had to have it. Its a golden brown swirled wood,medium hardnes perhaps but light weight. Very pretty, but I got a set of bad scales for sure. I think I'll take you up on the epoxy idea.

If all else fails I think I'll just start over.
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  #7  
Old 11-06-2012, 07:00 PM
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Hunter, Quercus is the genus for oak. Quercus alba is white oak. It is a domestic species. Some woods don't require stabilization. Cocobolo, ebony, ironwood to name a few.
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  #8  
Old 11-06-2012, 11:27 PM
fizban fizban is offline
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I haven't been making knives for very long but I have been a woodworker/Woodturner for 25+ yrs. Minwax makes a "wood hardener" that might help you here though no where as good as the stablized ones. I have also used the "thin" version of CA glue which you can find from woodworking stores like Rockler and Woodcraft supply to reinforce soft and or punky spots on bowls and pens that I have turned. simply soak the area and let dry (you can use the accelarator sparingly to speed this up) then repeat untill the glue dosen't soak in any more. I would suggest wearing gloves and working in a well ventalated area because the fumes can be quite potent.
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  #9  
Old 11-07-2012, 03:50 AM
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Anthony Chaney Anthony Chaney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter280man View Post
Thanks RR! I have always loved working with woods, But the stabalized wood seems like the way to go for knife handles.

I have no Idea even where it comes from, maybe south america?????...saw it on E-bay and had to have it. Its a golden brown swirled wood,medium hardnes perhaps but light weight. Very pretty, but I got a set of bad scales for sure. I think I'll take you up on the epoxy idea.

If all else fails I think I'll just start over.
Yep, me too bro. The one I bought was advertised as professionally stabilized, but I'm almost sure it just has some Super Glue rubbed on it. It's pretty, but soft. Bummer. I bet I can guess where you got it.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:52 AM
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AUBE AUBE is offline
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Getting professionally stabilized woods is the way to go but what fizban suggested can help as well.

I made a simple vacuum setup with a hand pump for bleeding brake lines, and an empty pickle jar with a vacuum outlet epoxied onto the lid. I placed wood in Minwax and drew a vacuum for a good day or so with the wood completely submerged in the Minwax. I did this when the wood was almost to the final shape and I drilled a few small holes partway through the handle from the tang side. I kept applying vacuum until no more bubbles came out of the wood. Penetration was pretty good.

If you don't have a vacuum pump, some people will use a simple canning jar setup. Basically submerge your wood in the solution, place the jar into heated water until the stabilizing solution heats up, then tighten down the lid and a vacuum will form upon cooling. You just have to be careful with flammable solutions...you don't want to start a fire. Also using an electric burner is supposed to be safer than an open flame. I've heard people have even used this method with simple oils like mineral oil. You won't harden the wood with mineral oil, but it will replace air pockets with pockets of oil, thus preventing moisture from being absorbed...which is what stabilizing is about.

The CA (cyanoacrylate, "Superglue") method also works but in my experience the penetration is fairly superficial unless the wood is very soft. Baking the wood in the oven at low temps to drive out all the moisture prior to coating it with CA will really help with capillary action, and the CA will be sucked in faster/deeper. This method works well for improving surface hardness, and sealing the surface, but in thick section the interior portion will still be soft.

But getting professional resins, or having a professional service do the stabilizing for you tends to get better results, with less hassle.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:00 AM
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Anthony Chaney Anthony Chaney is offline
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good morning Aube. I think we were posting at the same time.
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  #12  
Old 11-07-2012, 05:16 AM
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I think you guys are giving a fine quality hardwood a bad rap. Yes quercus alba is "white oak", but by no means a "soft wood". It is native to North America and grows common in most states (can't say for Alaska or Hawaii). Burls are usually much harder than straight grain due to the growing process that developes these areas on a tree. Straight grain areas split quite easily and was often used for shakes (shingles) and thin strips were used for basket weaving. Quarter sawn wood was and still is used extensively for fine furniture and cabinetry. White and other oak burls are beautiful when finished well and are very durable. Many old European relic knives found in the bogs had handles of oak......still intact and servicable, not so much the blades. Same here in the US, as many found trade knives were handled in oak, the blades worn down to nothing from use but the handles still hanging in there. Our American History museums are full of them. As you might surmise, I'm not all that "sold" on stabilized wood. Has it's place and lots of folks/makers like. I just prefer not to use synthetics or plastics in my work.

I would venture you got taken on your ebay purchase if it is punky, wormy and soft. Many wood turners like the punky, wormy, spalted woods for turning, but they do stabilize it first. It can produce some very interesting results, just as any other hardwood.
I have found oaks to take leather stains well and do respond somewhat to chromium trioxide, but neither give deep penetration. I normally use a "french polishing" method to seal the grain by filling the pores with the wood's own sanding dust.

Just curious, why would you be staining rosewood? It's a very oily wood to begin with and applying an oil based stain seems unneccessary, plus the buffing will probably produce just enough heat to cause bleed-out of the excess oil.


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  #13  
Old 11-07-2012, 07:11 PM
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Wow ...lots of great advice! I have to thank everyone for their input. And sorry for late postings, I forgot to refresh my page and missed several posts till tonight.

I was going to use a alcohol based stain only because I like a bit more red tint to the wood.

I have already used a pick and pulled some of the worm dust out of the holes and used some colored gun bedding resin to fill the shallow voids. I'd have to say that its almost a perfect match. Sure wish the holes would have been visible before I started all the work.

I have made a couple knives before but with deer antlers for handles, and quite crude since they were ment for late 1800's reinacting. I started this lill escapade quite by accident, and totally blinded with no clue as to what I needed to do to get things going. And yes, the the burl in question did come from e-bay. Seemed like a likely place to get started....still does but have to be a bit more careful with my purchases!

Im thinking on giving the minwax hardner a try with a vacum jar. Pretty sure my vacum packer has the jar hookups around here somewhere. Then a bit of either toung or linspeed. I have lots of rifle making finishes, just hoped they might work in this case as well.

One more quick question.....what type of buffing compound should I use on the rose woods?
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  #14  
Old 11-07-2012, 08:18 PM
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I usually just take rosewoods to 600 grit, then work over with 0000 steel wool. Followed up with a loose wheel buff loaded with Tripoli compound, then wax well.


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  #15  
Old 11-09-2012, 11:18 PM
LLeith LLeith is offline
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Rosewood is one of my favorites. After 600 grit it's as smooth as porcelain and always beautiful.

One of my favorite aspects of this forum is the diversity of woods and steels makers prefer to use. I've only worked with two types of steel so far, but I use many different varieties of wood, mostly exotics.

I appreciate this thread. There's a lot of good info and advice here.

Good luck with your 5 knives!
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