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Fine Embellishment Everything from hand engraving and scrimshaw to filework and carving. The fine art end of the knifemaker's craft.

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  #1  
Old 08-05-2005, 08:16 PM
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Darren Darren is offline
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A new engraver? A little food for thought.

Years ago I purchased a wonderful book by Engraver George Sherwood. " Fire arms engraving and Design" With in the first few pages of this book was an article written by the (at the time) Secretary of FEGA R. Evens. What follows is that article word for word.
Although this article was written with guns in mind you can very easily replace all the words "GUN" and replace them with "KNIFE" and it would still remain very true what he has to say. So what I am saying, is keep this article in mind when you venture out and start engraving on your own knives or start offering your engraving for sell.



Some Further Comments on Engraving. By R. Evens, past Secretary of FEGA

Over the past year I have become progressively more concerned over a pattern that I see emerging in our profession. I have been getting an increasing number of communications from members who have one, two or three years of engraving experience who are planning to enter into commercial engraving, often on a full time basis. This makes me very uneasy! With out actually seeing the quality of their work, it is risky (and perhaps even unfair) to generalize, but I think they are making a mistake. I doubt that they realize just how limited the market really is and how few Guild members earn there living just from engraving, and that even fewer make a livelihood just engraving guns. The world is not waiting to beet a path to your door. I can name at least a dozen competent engravers who have quit the profession in the last two years because they couldn't?t make an adequate living at it.
Let me tell you what I think is happening? An enthusiastic beginning engraver shows his work to friends and perhaps at a local gun show. Some people look at his work and have him do some engraving for them. The engraver suddenly finds he is making some money and decides that fame and fortune is becoming and he is on his way?. Let me perform the unpleasant task of throwing some cold water on you. The probability is that your early customers don?t know a #### thing about engraving.
Remember that engraving on fire arms should do two things: IT SHOULD ENHANCE THE BEAUTY OF THE GUN AND IT SHOULD ENHANCE THE VALUE OF IT!
Now your customer will keep your prized engraved gun for a wile and then he will tire of it and attempt to trade it off or sell it. He will have to deal with someone who is more knowledgeable about engraving and he will find, much to his dismay, that no one wants to buy the gun because the hard truth is that the engraving did neither of the things it was supposed to. The angry owner, because he cannot sell his gun for what he thought the beauty was worth, will tell everyone within sight or hearing that the #&X?#XL** engraver is no #### good!! And he is probably at least partly right.
The result will be that your market will dry up. The knowledgeable gun owner has known all along that your work was not yet quite good enough and now the ignorant are also bad mouthing you.
But this is only part of the problem. With determination and practice, you will get better. BUT IT WILL TAKE YEARS FOR YOU TO GET OVER THE BAD REPUTATION OF YOUR EARLY WORK. People will remember all the bad things that they heard long after your work has improved.
If you are skeptical about what I say, just go to a gun show and look at the engraved guns that are offered for sale. How many of them remain unsold month after month because the engraving runs between poor and awful? Every one of those guns are a negative advertisement for some engraver, even if he did the work years ago.
I am not suggesting that an engraver must be another Nimschke or Kornbrath before he offers his work for sale. I am suggesting that before he makes that decision, he seek the advice of people who know quality engraving and not be deceived by the praise of ignorant people. Let?s face it our art is not one that can be mastered overnight. Don?t be too impatient. Bad engraving always has a way of coming back to haunt you. In addition, it is harmful to all engravers.


I wish I would have read this article in the beginning of my carrier I would have done some things differently.
Darren


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  #2  
Old 08-05-2005, 08:36 PM
ron p. nott ron p. nott is offline
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darren.. thanks for posting this article .. how true this is but there are too many new engravers who think there work is great, until you tell them to keep praticing . many of times i am asked to comment on other engravers work. to the person who is asking the question the work looks great and when i tell them it is not they think that i am being rude and have a chip on my shoulder i also tell them that i am not the best and that they should always keep that in mind because there is always some one better than you. i will always say i am not satified with my work and i am all ways trying to improve on it .. ron


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Old 08-05-2005, 11:16 PM
MCirelli MCirelli is offline
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That?s a good article in Mr. Sherwood?s book I have read it a few times.
When I was learning to set diamonds I asked the diamond setter that was teaching me, maybe I should start with CZ's (cubic Zirconia). He asked me, do I want to be a diamond setter or a CZ setter. My answer to him was diamond. Once I broke a diamond and had to pay for it, I broke very few after that. Making mistakes is part of learning.
I don't think to many people if any on this forum or anywhere else was born an engraver. It does take much practice and dedication to do any job good. Some jobs less than others. Just because something is hard doesn't mean it should not be attempted.
It iis true honest criticisms and praise by qualified people is as good a teacher as good practice is. But bad information can do much damage.
Even the best make mistakes they just make very few and hide them well.
Just my thoughts as a newbe to engraving but not to the jewelry arts.
Mike Cirelli
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Old 08-05-2005, 11:24 PM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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Gee, Thanks a lot Darren! Here I was all cranked up about learning to engrave, and then you go an pee in my punch bowl! I was planning on being a world famous engraver within 6 months!

Just kidding....... That article does get right to the heart of things. Nothing worth having comes easy, nor does it come without consuming some time and effort. It's taken my 20+ hears of Bladesmithing to get where I'm at with knives. Even after the GRS class, I fully expect it will be a year or two of engraving practice before I have enough confidence to try it on a knife.

This evening I found just how difficult a simple border around a oval guard could be. I cut a couple of mild steel guard blanks and used them for tonight's practice session.....there is a HUGE difference working on a 1/4" wide radius versus those flat practice plates! (it all still looks like digging ditches with scoop shovels!)


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Old 08-06-2005, 03:02 AM
fcuder fcuder is offline
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How right that article is!
A few years ago i bought a Gravermax to make my diamond setting work easier, and began to step into engraving. Seeing how easy i could cut metal i thought i was going to "eat the world" doing engraving. Since my "artistic sense" is more than limited, i frantically searched for all kinds of shortcuts (computer. transferring methods, etc.), and even dared with some gun engraving, with poor results.
Now I am refocused on diamond setting (pays the bills), also do some jewellery engraving (help to pay the bills). Outside jewelry, some silverware and those oval plates to be inlayed on gunstocks. No more gun parts: I have recently refused the posibility of engraving some parts of a very expensive express rifle. Just thought i could ruin the piece and almost definetely close the doors to future engraving orders.
When it comes to practice engraving, now i spend more time with pen and paper than with gravers.
Regards, Fernando F.

-- for M. Cirelli (in case he's reading): hello Mike, do you really have to pay if you have the misfortune of breaking a stone at work? I have always stated cleary to my customers that my prices do not include any liability in case of an "accident".
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Old 08-06-2005, 07:04 AM
MCirelli MCirelli is offline
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Hi Fernando
I have always paided for my mistakes. I have worked for myself for 26 years, the buck always stoped with me. I will not be responsible for enhanced stones and other situations.
Mike
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Old 08-07-2005, 07:14 AM
fcuder fcuder is offline
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Hello all,
here you have two practices I did months ago. This is the kind of work that when a wannabe engraver (myself) finishes he/she thinks that is just about to get it. An if you show it to a friend or family you are rated as true artist. But when shown to people who knows what an engraving should look like, the cold water comes down.
The pics are not good, but if you can see something, more cold water is welcome.

Fernando F.
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Last edited by fcuder; 08-07-2005 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 08-07-2005, 08:00 AM
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Andy S Andy S is offline
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I agree the pictures make it hard to see the engraving. But from what I can see the engraving looks pretty good. The composition seems to flow. I think one of the mistakes new engravers make is the movement of the design. All the elements in the design need to move along a central line. A good design cut poorly tends to hold up better than a bad design cut well. If you look at a lot of the work of the engravers from long ago most are not cut to the standards of today but they still look good. The eye follows the ebb and flow of the design and is not drawn to the individual elements. A single element that doesn't follow the flow immediately draws your attention. From what I can see from the photos shown the designs flow well. There are other considerations such as balance between negative space and the main design. A design that is not inked does not suffer from overwhelming negative space problems the way a high contrast design will. Adding ink and consequently higher contrast will bring all mistakes to the surface so to speak. While still uninked the eye is drawn to movement of the bright cut lines and away from the negative space and any unevenly cut lines.
Now, I don't say these things because I think I'm an expert but because I have made all the same mistakes as everyone else. I still make some of them. It's very easy to finish cutting a design and to realize there is too much negative space. One must take into account the fact that the outlines of the scrolls and leaves will become part of the background making the main design appear to shrink and the background to grow. I've seen a lot of engravings that suffer from this. I'm sure the engraver was scratching their head wondering how the design changed when they cut it so accurately to begin with. I imagine these designs may suffer from high contrast so it may be best to leave them uninked and they will look fine.


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