Background darkening?

[BrianT]

Good evening all

I have a question about some of the specifics of how to go about getting a black background.

Is using black paint pretty much the norm now?

How do you go about applying it, is it painted in the background with a small brush or is the whole area covered and the high spots buffed off after the paint dries?

Do veins / shading get paint also and will it stay in fine lines?

Also does the backgroung have to be relieved or will it work on a stippled background that was not relieved.

Well I guess it was several questions. It seems to me that paint would only work in relieved areas and deeper lines and not on unrelieved stippled backgrounds and very fine lines.

If it wont work on unrelieved stippled backgrounds, I am open to suggestions to darken the background.

Thanks in advance for your help
Brian

[J. Barraclough]

Hi Brian.
I know that others use paint but I have used Speedball Oil Based Printers Ink #3550 for over 30 years and it serves me well.
Some folks use fingerprint ink.
Printers ink stays in the relieved background and any engraving or shading cuts very well.
Surface stipple is subject to wear with any product IMO.
Just my thoughts, your results may vary.
Best regards, John.

[russt]

Brian,
I?ve been using Rust-oleum flat black. Just brush it on with a small brush or dap it on with a q-tip and wipe it off with your fingers while it?s still wet. I agree with John on the surface stippling.

[Jim Small]

Bryan....
Like John and Russ....flat stippling doesn't work to well. I like Russ use Rust-oleum flat black....paint the surface an wipe it off with a sheet of old telephone book page making sure I don't press to hard and remove the paint from the relieved background. If I do...then I take a tooth pic and touch it up.
If you are engraving brass or nickle silver use cold blue. This gives the background a nice flat black finish and also fills the fine detail cuts too. You will have to use a fine emory paper backed with hard flat surface to finish the surface.
I am working on a new background finish using UV ink. This ink is hardened with a UV light. This process seems to have a good future. When it is hardened it is impervious to most solvents. I will report on this later.
Thanks to my good friend John and you too Russ.
Jim

[BrianT]

Thanks for the info guys.

So I guess the norm is also to relieve the background. I am not sure I am ready to do that. How even does the relieved area need to be, and what treatment is typically given to the relieved area.

Thanks
Brian

[J. Barraclough]

Hi Jim, Brian and Russ.
Like Jim, I have also used a light/heat activated ink for some special jobs.
It is called " RESISTAL" and is made by the New England Ink & Metals Co.
When it is exposed to UV light and the heat of a light bulb it's impervious to just about anything. It is used in the etching and printing industry and maybe our friend Antonio knows about this or a like Spanish product as it's also acid resistant.
This stuff is expensive and requires haz. mat shipping. Read all the warnings, it's pretty touchy stuff.
Especially DO NOT shake the can before opening. And even stir it with care.
It foams off like a Roman Candle.
Maybe this is similar to the product that Jim is working with.
Knowing Jim, he may have found a better one.

Best, John.

[Jim Small]

John...
The one I am curently testing is a UV ink used to print the information on Compat Discs and metal lables that will be in contact with substances that normally carode most printing.
The product come in a small tub and is fairly expensive. I got the manufactur to send me a sample and it may last me a life time. I haven't had time to do much testing but plan to get to it after the Atlanta show. You can get the UV lights from any hardware store...I got mine from Lowe's. The only problem with the sample I received has a caution lable attached that is four pages long....one of the reasons I haven't started the testing.
I will keep you up to date following the Atlanta Show....
Thanks John....
Jim

[Jim Small]

Bryan
I have included three photos of knives and one practice plate. The bolsters are 416 stainless the first one is cut deep with no blacking....the second is cut deep with blackening and the third is a brass practice plate darkened with cold blue.
I usually cut my background deep to give definition and then blacken with, as I mentioned before, flat black enamel paint and in some cases I use Brownell's flat black bake on enamel. I stipple the background to hold the paint. I use a very high speed dental lab tool to remove the background with my own designed cutters. I hope this helps.
Jim

[BrianT]

Thanks Jim

A picture is worth a thousand words -- thanks for 3

Beautiful work - I really appreciate you showing me. I may have to rethink my methods.

Thank you again
Brian

[biggles]

Hi Jim

The UV inks have been around for a while now but they have really taken off in the last few years in the digital printing area. They were/are set to be the next big thing in this area.

Some of the wide format flat bed printers can print on any surface up to 50mm deep. So this means corrugated iron, bathroom tiles, and just about any surface can be printed on. One guy I know even printed on toast to see what the effect could be.........and I have to admit it looked pretty darn impressive.

The point being that when these inks are "set"..........they are just about indestructable.

I have a few friends in that industry so I'll see if I can get my hands on some ink as well and have a bit of an experiment and get back to you about it. You've gotten my curiosity going now!!!

Cheers
Andrew

[Jim Small]

Andrew....
That certainly would be nice. I and others would look forward to your tests. The process is really no different, so I am told, than putting the ink on in the usual way and placing it under a UV light. I just haven't had a chance to try it. I will post my results too.
Thanks for being there and making yourself available.
Jim

[Wade Holloway]

Jim that is a fantastic job on that knife you did for Harry and Charlie. I had not seen that one before.

[Jim Small]

Thanks Wade.....
I sometimes don't like to do the blackening. Charlie and Harry, on occasion, feel the same way. As you are aware, I like to cut the background fairly deep and leaving the black out see to add more depth to the project. I am in the process of doing one form them now which has a deeply cut gold background. When I am finished I will try to post it.
Thanks for the comment!
Jim

[biggles]

No worries Jim, glad to help out.

Today I managed to get two UV inks. The first is a watery ink that goes in a machine (similar to an inkjet) and the other is more like thick paint that screen printers use.

The machine watery one needs very high UV light like a sunbed.......the screenprint ink needs a UV black light.

So I discovered a few things today

The first is....... that I had no idea there were so many kinds of UV ink available (I've just got 2 of them to play with and apparantley there are quite a few) I also had no idea that there were variations on UV light.

The second is.......Don't tell them why you want it as that just really gets too confusing for words.

The third is........ I've put my black light in a really easy place to find. So after nearly tearing the garage, workshop and home to pieces .........I still can't find it.

So when I find my black light I'll let you know the results. I don't think I'll try the sunbed test as that may be just slightly over the top

Cheers
Andrew