@ The Bench---Tips and other handy tricks

[ron p. nott]

hi jim , tim don and anybody esle that i may have missed . you guys have great ideas i do like this forum the only problem is i now dont look at my other sites. ok on the holding devices i make alot od devices out of corian you know that counter top material i have a ton of it . i went to my local bath and kitchen cabnet maker and got all of his cut off peieces when i need a holding device i just mill one out to fit the gun part or knife that i am working on i also line it with leather . and that stand i have been looking for a new idea for my vise . i use a stack of coke cases with a top of marble on them to slide my vise around thanks guys for the ideas ron p. nott

[Tim Adlam]

Thanks Ron, You know I got a load of that corian too. Knifemaker Mike Schirmer gave me bunch of it just before he moved his shop to Montana. I've had it sitting around here and haven't used much of it. I didn't think of using it for holding fixtures, thanks for the idea. Soon I'll have that photo problem licked---then I'll show you what I DID use it for. Tim

[ron p. nott]

ok tim give it a try i make all kinds of holding devices out of it and you dont have to worry if it is going to damage the knife or gun part. when you get that picture problem fixed show me how to post i did read somebodys instructions on how to but i got totally confused . it show be as easy as msn ron p. nott

[Jim Small]

Ron
How many Coke crates do you use when you are sitting and how many do you use if you choose to stand and engrave.....and do you take advantage of the shimmy. If you can I would love to see some photos posted. I have never used Corian but, it sounds like it would work fine....I'll get some and give it a try.


I use Brownell's flat black bakeing laquer to blacken the background of some of my engraving...especially on stainless steel . I would like to hear other ideas concerning this issue. I have found when blacking brass....that cold blue will blacken the textured background of relief engraving and the same goes for nickle silver. of course without saying, cold blueing does a good job on regular gun steel if the final finish will be left with bare metal or a hand sanded finish. Any other ideas on any of the issues would be appreciated.

Jim

[gravertom]

hey Guys,

Some thoughts on black back grounds.

I have used enamel paints, magic marker, and have had good success with the brownells lacquer. On my next few projects i plan to experiment with no coloring at all. If you visit http://www.engravingarts.com
and check the glossaries, you will find a discourse on back grounds using only dots or lines to create the desired shades. I was able to see some high end Italian and German guns at the NRA show in Charlotte a couple of years ago, and those guns had no ink in them that I could see. The effect of many shades of gray, against the walnut of the stocks, was very beautiful, and more "natural" looking to my eye. I have seen some high dollar Brownings in person, and they had the same look. I haven't quite figured it out yet myself. For those of you that have "Steel Canvas", the Beretta on p. 321 is a good example of what I am talking about, although on the engraving arts site you will see even darker contrasts. The lighting for the photo could be a factor too. Another very accomplished engraver recommended printers ink, although he warned that it takes a very long time to fully dry. Since i still engrave mostly jewlery, I haven't tried this one yet, but it sounds very logical. One of the problems with the enamels and lacquers is that if you fully cleran away ther black from where you don't want it, it usually comes out of the very fine cuts, too. Printers ink is designed to stay in very fine cuts, while the excess is totally removed from the un engraved surface.

Sorry I am not speaking entirely from experience here, but hope theinfo will help.

Take care,

Tom

ps. another thing i hope to try some time is a low temp curing (200 degrees)enamel substitute, I think it is called cementite, or something like that. Stuller, a jewelry findings and tool supplier in Louisiana, sells it. I imagine Beretta was using something like that on their enameled guns, as regular enamel cures around 1500 degrees or so. This stuff is supposed to stick to steel, while regular enamel doesn't do to well, from what i have read.

[Jim Small]

Tom

Thanks for the reply. I have found that if you thin down the Brownell's bakeing laquer a little it will stay in the lighter cuts. The main thing is you have to let it dry before you place it in the oven. This method ( using this bakeing laquer) can not be used on knives....the baking tempature will destroy most handle material....it's mainly designed for firearms. I normally don't use a blacking but some customers do ask for it. I have used the printing ink you mentioned, works good. The ink I used was a silk screen ink which is used to print instructions or directions on metal plates on machinery. As you know, some of the plates take a real beating from cleaning solvents. I had a small sample bottle of this ink and ran out and haven't replaced it.....it worked very well.
Thanks for the reply and keep those ideas coming.

Jim

[Tim Adlam]

Ron, yeah, it's been frustrating trying to get pictures up. Thought I "had it right" today but no cigar. Don't fret my friend, we WILL find a way. My motto; ENDEAVOR TO PERSEVERE !

Jim, The engraver that originally inspired me to get into this game, John Kudlas, shared this tip for blackening engraving cuts. John uses a black wax-base crayon. I'm not sure the source but if I remember right, it's similar to the touch-up sticks used for nicks in furniture repair.
I use a combination of methods.
*Vigor brand silver/gold oxidizer. This stuff works good for about 90% of the metals out there. Just be mindful of the fumes and I take the extra precaution of neutralizing it with a baking soda solution after I'm done with it. Don't let it get anywhere else than where you want it!
*Speedball blockprinter ink.
*Thinned-down black enamel, applied in multiple coats until the desired look is achieved.
I believe that the Cronite people have some blackening agents/oxidisers in their list of etching supplies.
Lynton Mckenzie used an automotive epoxy blackening.
I might try experimenting with "ceramit". The jewelry supply houses carry it. I believe it's a room temp. cure type of material.
Like you, I'm always looking for a good blackening product that wears like iron.

Tom, I agree about the Italian engraving. I don't think they use any blackening. I find that buyers in this country "desire" that deep-black, high- contrast look and another benefit is for publication purposes. Tim

[gravertom]

Thanks Tim for correcting me on the ceramit. How have you two found the printers ink to work as far as longevity goes? Also, what is your policy as far as maintaining or touching up the black finish when you offer that to your customers?

Tom

[Tim Adlam]

Hi Tom, I don't use the ink as much as I use the oxidiser. When I do, I apply like Jim stated and allow for adequate drying time. Often times it's a matter of trial and error with this stuff. Sometimes it's necessary to do a test spot on the area of the bolster to see how the oxidiser reacts. If I get no reaction, then I figure that I'll have to use enamel, lacquer or ink. I'll adjust my design to minimize the negative space (where the wear will be on the blackening) and do my cutting and shading a bit deeper. I find it an advantage to plan ahead for this before having to solve the problem later.
As far as a guarantee goes, of course I offer free touch-ups as part of my service. I like it when customers use some of these knives in the field. That's what they're really for! It's a matter of personal pride and satisfaction for them to have the "best" working and "best" looking hunting knife in their posession, much like a favorite shotgun and rifle. We know that most of the decorated knives never see the light of day but for those that do, I want my finish to wear like iron.
I've never found a satisfactory finish to use on titanium. Has anyone had better luck at it than me?
Tim

[Bob Sigmon]

Here are a few bench pics for Tim.
Thanks Bob for the help, mucho appreciated!
In reply to the "what do I do with all of this corian"? Here's how I put some into use. These images illustrate a hand support for my engraving ball. It's a great assist when layout work has to be done and makes for a steady hand as well as reduces fatigue. 2nd. pic down shows how I block-up a knife as described in a previous post. The bottom photo shows the pins, 2 lags w/ the heads cut off. This support is invaluable for letter layout, scrim, you name it. The jaw-side edge is set back about 1/8" to not interfere with what's being held. Tim










Bob Sigmon

[Tim Adlam]

CONTRIBUTORS

A little tip, When you're working at your bench, keep a small notepad handy and when inspiration comes to you regarding a tip, question or an observation you would feel like sharing to help others learn your craft, write it down and get it on the board. Sometimes we think people know what we consider common knowledge.
For my own case, I often need to be led by the hand, have a map drawn and be provided with multiple 8x10 color glossies with circles and arrows and such attached!
Tim

[ron p. nott]

hi jim .. to answer your question on how many coke crates i use it is 6 hi double wide to create a 20 in wide top which i place a sheet of marble so i can slide my vise around on it . osprey guy seen my set. up and i dont get any shimmy because of the with of the top . as far as corian goes i think it is great for makeing holding devices i use alot of it and thanks to every body for giving advise on blacking back grounds i use a scripto black permant marker it works well for me . when blacking back ground you must remember to cut deep ron p. nott

[Bob Sigmon]

This is my main engraving station. I use a
potters wheel-type set up that I built from scrounged
and purchased materials. The shaft is polished and
ground drill rod fastened to the floor with concrete
anchors, plumbed and supported at 2 points with
sleeved bearings. the lower lever on the shaft locks
the whole works up if I need that function, otherwise
the whole thing rotates smoothly.





Also detailed is the sliding dovetail fixture that
supports the engraving ball. The cylinder supporting
the ball is filled with automotive body putty,
conforming perfectly with the ball shape. The
hardened putty is coated with a thin layer of powdered
graphite.

Below the bench is a stand for the foot pedal,
everything else is at arms reach. I have a larger,
home built vise that can be adapted to the shaft if
need be.



This system has worked very well for me and I've
learned to operate it efficiently for use with the
microscope. I find the potters wheel extremely handy
for turning the work into the graver by using the
wheel in combination with the built-in ball vise
rotation. The adjustments necessary for keeping the
object within the scopes field of view are
accomplished with speed and efficiency.

Tim

[HermanKnives]

Tim,

The GRS holding fixture works great on larger folders and fixed blades. For smaller, thinner folders I made wood blocks from 1x2's screwed together. Then I milled a depression about 1/4" deep on both sides. I put a couple pieces of paper between for some play then put auto body putty in the depression and set the folder (lightly coated with break free oil) in and push it into the putty. The putty even goes inside the frame abit and so whe sets up keeps the knife from being compressed while engraving. Just before the plastic sets fully, pry the 2 sides apart and it will split nicely down the middle and seperate. the body putty sets up quickly so you can have an engraving fixture ready to use in about 30 minutes. Take knife out and wipe of oil, you now have a perfect contoured holding fixture. Hope this helps. remill out the plastic and reuse endlessly

[Tim Adlam]

Thanks Tim,
I see your point on the GRS fixture. The body putty's wonderful stuff. I'll have to try your method. I'm always concerned about exerting any kind of pressure on the knife scales, especially delicate folders.
I've been using a variety of nylon shims of various thickness to back-up the inside of the folder body when doing gold work, etc. I'm wondering what other methods or approaches you guys have to offer on that?
Tim