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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 11-14-2016, 03:39 PM
edh58 edh58 is offline
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Edge too thin?

My first knife...I should have done my research first, but I waited until I was ready to heat treat to dig into that step. I went way overboard in the pre-heat treatment shaping and finishing of the knife. My edge is about .018. Is there anything I can do to improve the chances of successful heat treatment at this point? its a 6 inch drop point from .125 O1.

Thanks, Ed
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Old 11-14-2016, 05:18 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Yes, there is something you can do but you won't like it. Put that knife aside and start over. Learn to do a successful heat treatment first by making a few simple knives that you test rigorously and then break to see how the grain looks (which is a major clue to how well the HT worked). Once you know what you're doing you may be able to look at your original knife and decide how you can treat it with some chance of success.

Or, you can grind the edge down to thicken it up. That makes the blade narrower but maybe not bad - I haven't seen your knife so I'm guessing. But, I encourage you not to do that just yet and follow the suggestion in my first paragraph. The main reason for that is because you are too personally invested in this first knife to test it and break it like you need to. That is THE single biggest thing that prevents newbies from learning to make actual knives instead of pieces of steel that merely look like knives ...


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Old 11-14-2016, 09:03 PM
edh58 edh58 is offline
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Thanks Ray,
I think I'll do just that (make a couple knives and treat). You mentioned looking at the grain. What should it look like when correctly heat treated?
Ed
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Old 11-15-2016, 06:21 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
Yes, there is something you can do but you won't like it. Put that knife aside and start over. Learn to do a successful heat treatment first by making a few simple knives that you test rigorously and then break to see how the grain looks (which is a major clue to how well the HT worked). Once you know what you're doing you may be able to look at your original knife and decide how you can treat it with some chance of success.

Or, you can grind the edge down to thicken it up. That makes the blade narrower but maybe not bad - I haven't seen your knife so I'm guessing. But, I encourage you not to do that just yet and follow the suggestion in my first paragraph. The main reason for that is because you are too personally invested in this first knife to test it and break it like you need to. That is THE single biggest thing that prevents newbies from learning to make actual knives instead of pieces of steel that merely look like knives ...
THIS is experience talking and excellent advice!
(Ray has stated this probably once a month since as long as I can remember and it's still solid stuff)


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Old 11-15-2016, 09:06 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Yes, and its all up there in the Sticky threads but I'm not sure anyone ever reads it so I just keep repeating it over and over *sigh*

The grain of a properly heat treated blade will probably be light grey with a very fine texture. It shouldn't contain anything that resembles glassy crystalline structures of any significant size. A clumpy texture would not be good. There are variations to this, its not entirely a one size fits all answer but that's a start ...


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  #6  
Old 11-15-2016, 10:21 AM
samuraistuart samuraistuart is offline
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I have successfully heat treated many, many knives with edges that were .015". Even shallow hardening steels that require a very fast oil. Ideally the minimum edge thickness for carbon steels is .020". Many do .030"+, but I can tell you with extreme confidence that .018" on a 1/8" hunting knife is approaching bare-bones minimum, but can be done without too much distortion.

When .015" becomes too thin is when you're making something like a Santoku, where you have relatively thin stock (say .070"), and the blade is tall, like 2"+. Those knives WILL warp and bacon edge just about every single time at .015". A hunter, like your dimensions, I would have no issue HTing that whatsoever. I bring my hunters down that thin every single knife I make. Do NOT go below ~.010" with hunters or any knife, really. And a very important thing to remember, when you place blade into the quench oil, make sure you NEVER move it side to side. ONLY forward/back or up/down. It is the side to side movement that will warp a blade, as it is basically like putty in the austenite state, and does not begin to harden until you reach the Ms temp of ~400F.

The exception being SS that is plate/air quenched. You can take the edge on SS to pretty much where you want it at final dimensions pre HT. If oil quenching SS, as some do, then you'll need to leave it thicker, just like a carbon steel knife.
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Old 11-15-2016, 01:34 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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I agree ray told me the same thing at the time I thought he was mad.....BUT I deffinitly showed me exactly what I want the heat treat to be in the future.....ray has given me TONS!!! of advice but testing and breaking the knives was some of the first and is up there in the best piece of advice he gave... you said ..."make a couple of knives and treat" you can profile a couple of knives first but do NOT heat treat all of them at once you want to heat treat #1 then test and break then with those results you may change the heat treat on number 2....I may have taken what you said wrong I just want to make sure you don't heat treat all of them first
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Old 11-18-2016, 04:19 PM
edh58 edh58 is offline
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Thanks everyone, appreciate all of the input.
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advice, art, back, blade, drop point, edge, first knife, grind, heat, heat treat, heat treatment, hunter, hunting, hunting knife, knife, knives, make, making, profile, simple, steel


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