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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need. |
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#16
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1500? is a tad bit high for 01. Not terribly too high, but definitely higher than necessary. There is really no need to go higher than 1475?. A one hour 1200? separate stress relief heat before hardening is beneficial to the steel also. "Swirling" a blade is almost a guarantee to warp it, but it should be moved fore and aft, or up and down in the oil.
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#17
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Quote:
In the oil quench I shuffle my blades forward and back and up and down with a slicing motion, but not side to side. I did that once and shazaam...it really WILL cause warping! __________________ Find me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gpopecustomknives/ Gloria In Excelsis Deo!! |
#18
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I have had excellent results with the edge retention on my knives. It is one of the most compliments I get from my customers. I use a convex grind on the edge and that along with a good heat treatment gives me the retention and have never had a problem with deflection. I contribute that to paying attention to the heat treatment process and the convex grind helps.
On one of the first tactical knives that went to a SWAT officer, he had to use the knife to cut though a double sheetrock wall to gain entry into another room on a tactical operation. He advised that the finish on the knife now has many scratches, but the knife cut though the walls like it was butter. I also think the use of a good quenching oil helps in the heat treating process and I have had excellent results with the Brownell's Tough Quench oil resulting in consistant hardness on the 0-1 knives. __________________ RELH |
#19
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I second using Tough Quench on O1. My O1 knives also get raves for edge retention. I use a regular edge for skinning knives and convex for choppers ......
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#20
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Okay so about quenching oils...
You have the Parks 50 which you can get in 5 gallon containers. I think it runs about $120. Just mentioned was Brownells Tough Quench @ $60 per gallon. This is the first I've heard of this oil. And I see a Citgo Quenchol oil available at Jantz for $50 per gallon or $150 for 5 gallons. Using O-1 and lets say 1095, is one of these oils appreciably better than Canola Oil? I realize at least with 1095 most agree it (Canola) is on the very edge of being able to quench quickly enough. What is the difference between the others? Is on "best" for 1095 vs. O1 or would one work just as well for either steel? And what about the life of the oil. How many quenches can one expect from a gallon of oil? Don't know if I want to pay shipping on 5 gallons of oil if I can get some long life out of one gallon and it is appreciably better than Canola oil... Just have no experience with it all. __________________ Find me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gpopecustomknives/ Gloria In Excelsis Deo!! |
#21
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Either Parks 50 or Tough Quench is better - even much better - for 1095 than canola. I would think Parks 50 would work as well with O1 as Tough Quench does but I've never used any other pro oil than TQ so I can't testify for anything else.
I think the general rule of thumb is that a quench tank should contain at least 3 gallons of oil. Mine does. I'm still using the original oil bought around 13 years ago. Some gets burnt away but loss is usually because it drips off the blade so I have an extra gallon to use for topping off the tank as needed... |
#22
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With O1 tool steel, P50 is a little too fast...technically. I have quenched a few blades of O1 into P50 without issue. Others have had some micro cracks on the surface of the blade when doing that. An 11-13 second oil is usually recommended for O1. The pearlite nose on O1 is like 10 seconds....so a fast oil is not needed at all. 52100 has a PN of around 3 seconds....fast oil not required... however I do use P50 for 52100 and some smiths actually water quench 52100. 1095 and W2 have a PN of less than 1 second...fast oil needed.
1095 is indeed best with a fast oil like P50. Thinner cross sections will harden OK in canola warmed to 130?F, but approaching 1/8"...you may have some pearlite left over in the matrix, especially above 1/8". Some steels like the Hitachi White and Blue need an extremely fast quench...P50 works well...brine is better. The Hitachi steels, due to being a more clean and pure steel, are the only steels a brine quench is actually recommended. W2 and 1095 to some extent...with some failure rate (25%...just guessing). |
#23
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Nice info to have. My last job used the Exxon stuff. It seemed rather thin so I have always used a thin oil for quenching. The college down the hill from me when they have blacksmithing classes uses the Brownells stuff, so good to go on that. I haven't done any pro HT since I lost my job at that machine shop in 10-2008. I did talk to professional HT company techs, but it was mostly about the D2 we had to do all the time. The O1 was for tooling punches and dies and almost never for blades so I never really got past "the book" on O1.
Seems there is more to say on that steel than "the book", but I always got RC 59-60 with it, but maybe lost some toughness I'm guessing, but hard to say as breaking a 3/16" thick knife is hard to do, but O1 holds an edge even when HT in a forge. I have one O1 blade left from back then and it's not quite finished and was designed to kill boar with and is 1/4" thick @ RC 59. I put a false edge on one side and it could be converted into an Arkansas Toothpick though a bit lopsided, so maybe not,lol. |
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1084, 1095, anvil, art, bee, blade, brass, edge, grinding, handle, heat, heat treat, hot, knife, knives, make, maple, o-1, paracord, rod, steel, tap, temper, toughness, trade |
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