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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 10-15-2012, 06:27 PM
FluxCapacitor FluxCapacitor is offline
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Can you use an old grill to hold a brake drum forge?

Hello, I was hoping for help.

I'm making the good ol' brake drum forge and am thinking of where to put it. I have an old grill, the cast iron kind, not the thin sheet metal kind.

Would it be too hot for the grill with the drum in it? It doesn't sit exactly flush, but I thought I could "pack" the grill with something to make it all fit. What would I use? Mud? (sounds silly, I know, but I'm just remembering ancient forge pictures I've seen.)

I also have my 2" pipe, T connector, and hair dryer, coal, and railroad spike.

Thanks for any help.
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  #2  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:09 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I've never used a coal forge myself but I don't see why a bbq pit body wouldn't hold one. Assuming you do actually reach forging temps with it, the heat will be inside the brake drum and whatever part of the heat reaches the bbq pit would likely be less than the pit usually runs at when bbqing. I don't think I would pack it with anything unless maybe you had some ceramic wool. Anything solid will just sink the heat and make it more difficult to get your forge hot.

All that said, why not build a propane forge? Maybe you're want to do things 'the old way' and that's fine if that's what you want. If you're doing it because you think it's simpler or easier or even less expensive you might be surprised by what you could learn here. Propane forges are far easier to use than coal, less messy, easier to feed (real forge coal isn't something you can find at your local hardware store and BBQ coal won't git 'er done). Propane forges are simple to build, clean to use, and can be cheap to build. Give it some thought and let us know how your coal forge works for you ...


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  #3  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:40 PM
FluxCapacitor FluxCapacitor is offline
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Won't a propane one cost a lot though?
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  #4  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:34 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Not really. If you do the coal forge the way it needs to be done to really be useful it will cost about the same, depending on how well you can scrounge parts.

A propane forge body costs almost nothing to make - $15 worth of wool, a tin form (coffee can, stove pipe, etc), and a couple of fire bricks. The expense comes from the burner and regulator. If you have to buy a regulator you're looking at $30 - $40 new. If you want a forced air forge you need a blower - this can be expensive or not depending on the size of the forge and how resourceful you are. Look at the forge building stuff on my website. My main forge is built the expensive way but some example forges I built are very cheap. It depends on what you're trying to accomplish. One thing I do know: to use coal effectively you better really be interested in learning to use a coal forge because it is not nearly as simple as it would seem....


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  #5  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:49 PM
Bowman Bowman is offline
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Ray has some good information on his website regarding forge building. I was originally going to build one out of a brake drum but opted for propane. I like it since it is easy to use, clean, and very portable so I can set it up where I need to. It cost me nothing for a scrap cylinder, a plumber's propane torch I already owned, and about $40 for Insulwool and some refractory. If all you need is a small forge for heat treating, then that should do it. You could also try looking up a paint can forge. Good luck!
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2012, 05:26 AM
Pairomedicsfish Pairomedicsfish is offline
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I have done a simple brick forgse with nome built burner and a brake drum forge. Although i do like the old school feel of coal, the propane forge is the way to go for me. I am now building a propane forge from an old propane tank....much cleaner and easier for me to obtain proper temps. Those smiths sure make it look easy with a.coal.forge. but there js a huge learning curve it seems. The only problem i am having building my new forge is that I dont have a welder......
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2012, 12:55 PM
Imakethings Imakethings is offline
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Once again, I'm late to the conversation to add some semi-useful information.

Out where I am the soil here is VERY clay heavy, to the point where I've used it as the agent to hold my coal forge in place. If you don't have a clay heavy soil available to you, there are alternatives, here are two:

Sand+Cheap Kitty litter - Most sand is silica heavy and works decently to reflect/hold heat, mix 1:1 by weight mosten and form. It's not what I would use for the actual firebox, but it will do fine for holding one in place.

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/refractories.html - has a recipe for a homebrew refactory that I've had a lot of success with, I prefer to go heavier with the pearlite than what is listed, your milage may vary.


Pairomedicsfish, I'm guessing that you're wanting the door on the forge to swing out and have something to attach the burner assembly. The easiest way to do this without a welder is either rivets or bolts, I highly suggest tapping threads on to something OTHER than the forge body (the sheet metal in most propane tanks is a bit thin for my tastes to hold threads well). Failing that, drop in most any machine shop or auto body repair place, they will have a MIG welder and be able to do the welds pretty quick and cheap.
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  #8  
Old 10-19-2012, 04:33 AM
Pairomedicsfish Pairomedicsfish is offline
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Yep...that's exactly right...I have gone with bolts.....no biggie there...all I have left is to cut the hole for the burner. I may bolt down a floor flange and insert the burner through there......
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2012, 11:56 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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FWIW - Tai Goo one of the best blade smiths out there uses what he calls a Forge BQ made from an old bar BBQ grill - he also has info on using local clay, etc for making refractory - he posts here in teh Outpost section and you may want to do a search or ask him a new post...


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  #10  
Old 10-20-2012, 06:07 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Yes the bbq body will work. Heat won't be the issue. Fill the voids around the brakedrum with rubble non-flammable and kitty litter and you have a place to set tongs and hot stuff.

I think the "point" being made here is:
Do you want to learn to play with fire or forge steel? Big learning curve with coal fired forge, not so big with gas. Is gas more expensive? Time issue....while you are tending and nursing your fire you could be moving steel. (Once you get good with coal it's a somewhat different story). If you pay attention to your forge build, torch design, and temp control....Lp is quite cheap. A 20# bbq tank will last you quite awhile. I average 14 to 16 hrs per tank straight burn time sometimes more, but you must have good burner control. I use 100#rs at home, so it cost me less than $.50/hr to forge fuel wise. That's a lot of blades (8 - 12) for me and I forge to 90% finish. Still there's a lot of experience behind that. I don't use "blown" forges, don't like the extra noise or use of electricity. Venturi burners work very well if designed properly and are simple and cheap to make. They get plenty hot, I do patternwelded work in my single burner verticle forge.
As Ray said, your major expenses will be with the insulating wool, high temp mortar, regulator and needle valve. The rest is scrapyard stuff and simple plumbing supplies and will depend on how handy/creative you are with tools (which you better be if you are going to make knives).
If you just want the "primitive/traditional" experience, go with the brakedrum forge and have fun with it. If you are wanting to forge blades and fire is a secondary issue, go with a simple propane fueled forge and get to work.
Seems like there are always decisions to make no matter what. I'd suggest getting with some other folks and trying both methods to see what you like best and which will suit your goals best. Then decide.
I have, can, and do work with both forms of heat source. I prefer gas since it is cleaner, quicker, and more protable with less maintenance work......all "money" items in business end of a knifemaker's world.
Good luck, keep it fun and keep us posted.


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  #11  
Old 10-20-2012, 08:04 PM
Imakethings Imakethings is offline
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Terrible problem for me is that I've yet to get my propane forge jiggered to where I can do welding with it, but you give me a pile of coal and I can do it no problem.
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