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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:18 PM
troglodyte troglodyte is offline
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Question 5061 steel

hello folks. troglodyte here. Need some help. Starting my first scrach built knife. I want to use 5061 steell. The problem is that I can only find 1/4in. thick. The knife uses 1/8 or 3/16. I want to avoid a tremendous amount of filing and wasting steel. Any info would be greatly appreciated.. Thax

Last edited by troglodyte; 11-13-2012 at 08:20 PM. Reason: typo
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2012, 09:32 PM
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NJStricker NJStricker is offline
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5061, or 5160?

And why are you set on that particular steel? 1084 can be found in the thicknesses you want, and is a pretty good steel for a newbie. Relatively easy to heat treat, good edge retention, etc.
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2012, 10:38 PM
troglodyte troglodyte is offline
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NJStrioncker. 5160 steel was what I meant. Sorry, ignorance on my part. Got the idea for using that steel from Knifemaking with Bob Loveless. I'm very attracted to his style of knife. Appears very simple, but in reality, a thing of beauty grace, form and fuction. As a nank newby I've made a few knives from premade blades. I made a few blades for wood carving. Bent knives and such. Used my wood stove and kitchen oven for HT. Now I want to try myself on steel. Sorry for being so wordy. Thank you for your advice on using 1084. Wher could I find info on HT 1084. Thank you again.
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  #4  
Old 11-14-2012, 07:06 AM
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cbsmith111 cbsmith111 is offline
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Troglodyte, what area of KY do you live in? I live in Boyd County (Ashland area). I'm extremely new to knife making, but I am beginning to get some of the basics into my mind. I'm not saying I could even begin to teach you anything, but It's nice to know who is close by that's into the same thing.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:24 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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As NJ said, 1080 or 1084 would be a much better choice for someone with no experience and few tools. That is the steel we recommend every time a new guy asks what steel to use on his first knife, therefore it is a very common question. Use the Search button to look up some of the threads on whereto get 1084 and how to heat treat it....


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Old 11-14-2012, 08:29 AM
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Anthony Chaney Anthony Chaney is offline
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I agree with everyone else. There is nothing wrong with 5160, if you are going to hammer it. If you are going to grind, something a little more thin would work much better for you.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:58 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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It is a good steel but availability in the thickness that you need is a big issue. The same for 9260. I would go with the 1084 from The New Jersey Steel Baron or the 1080+ from Alpha Knife Supply. Both have more carbon than the 5160 and both have a higher chromium content than their designators would suggest and the 1080+ from AKS also has a touch of vanadium in it that would retard grain growth. Neither is complex enough to give any special problems with heat treating.

Doug


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Old 11-14-2012, 12:24 PM
troglodyte troglodyte is offline
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Smile 5061 steel

hi guys. Thank you all for the great advice. If it wasn't for the support and advice you give to newbies like me,things would much more difficult. Contacted Steel baron and ordered a length of 1084 steel. Having minimal experience and equipment, a lot of my efforts are makeing do with what you have. Part of its fun and its part of the learning curve. In regard to HT 1084 I use my wood stove and kitchen oven. I can get steel file to the nonmagnetic state, slow cool in a can of wood ashes and temper in the oven(understading wife) will this suffice with 1084? How long of a soak in the nonmagnetic state and what temp. to temper in the oven. ALL adice and info greatly appreciated. Thanx again. Troglodyte
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:51 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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That HT will pretty much work for 1084. The part you want to watch is that the steel is at non-magnetic just before you quench it in warm oil. That means not more than about 50 degrees more than non-magnetic. You can't just leave it in the fire for an hour and then check to see if it is non-mag yet - you have to catch it just as it gets there.

For tempering 425 - 450 should get it done but you can't trust the settings on your stove for that. Even a change of 25 degress can make all the difference in tempering so check you stove with an external thermometer of some kind ...


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Old 11-14-2012, 03:28 PM
troglodyte troglodyte is offline
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Hi Ray. Thanx for the info on 1084 steel. I guess if I'm going to get serious about knifemaking, I should consider a HT oven. A machinest friend suggested making one from a 20lb propane tank. He said he made one years ago in college. Have you ever heard of any thing like this. Thanx again.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:18 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Yes, we call them "forges" . An oven is electric. I guess you might build one inside a propane tank but I can't imagine why you'd want to. A gas forge, however, is usually built inside some type of metal cylinder and propane bottles have been used although they really are too large in diameter. Lots of guys build forges for heat treating. The trick is simply what I said in the last post: monitor closely and get the blade out of the heat at the right time. That will be true no matter what steel you use. Heck, it's also true if you do use an electric furnace, the only difference being that the furnace will tell you when the time is right ....


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Old 11-14-2012, 05:22 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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A gas forge for heat treating is not hard to make and it need not be very large. One that is 6" deep can heat treat a blade that is 8-9" long. I tried to post some pictures of mine but my system just doesn't want to cooperate or I'm having an attack of the stupids tonight. Anyway, something that can heat treat small(er) blade can be built in an old paint can lined with a little insulating ceramic matting and heated with a propane torch if you wanted to keep it really really basic.

Doug


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Old 11-14-2012, 10:44 PM
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Troglodyte,

Google "coffee can forge" and see what comes up. Literally, a simple heat treat forge can be made from a steel coffee can, a 24x12x1 inch piece of ceramic fiber blanket (like kaowool), a refactory cement lining (2400 degree rating should do it), and a simple propane torch such as a Bernzomatic or a weed burner.

You won't have the greatest control of the heat the way you would in an electric furnace, but it is simple and you will be able to heat treat simple carbon steels like 1080 or 1084. If you are patient you can even forge small blades.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:27 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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As a general rule, the simpler the steel, like the 10XX series, 5160, etc, the easier it is to heat treat in a gas forge. When you get up into the slightly more complex oil quenching steels like O1 or 52100 you may be able to get by with it if you are very careful. Then there are the complex air quenching tool and stainless steels that really require a regulated kiln or molten salt pot to heat for quenching. It's important to match the steel to the heat treating equipment that you have.

Doug


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