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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 01-03-2013, 04:54 PM
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JawJacker JawJacker is offline
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Mini forge

Had some time to goof off today, put this together. Most things I had on hand except the wok.
I used some lump coal, loaded it up, it lasted 15 min. Temp got up fast I threw some old files in to test they went non-magnetic in 4 or 5 min.
I like this system I had it out, fired up and cleaned up in 20 minutes.

Last edited by JawJacker; 02-10-2013 at 08:38 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2013, 05:02 PM
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Only thing I need are some UV glasses.The pics were taken at the end of the burn, wok was almost empty
Cowboy lump coal worked fine.
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  #3  
Old 01-03-2013, 05:08 PM
nick larkin nick larkin is offline
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hey good idea useing a wok
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  #4  
Old 01-03-2013, 05:55 PM
metal99 metal99 is offline
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Getterdone! What kind of fan did you use?


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  #5  
Old 01-03-2013, 06:13 PM
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Wood stove insert fan, seems to work fine.
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  #6  
Old 01-03-2013, 09:15 PM
metal99 metal99 is offline
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Nice thing about that forge is the price. It's effective and cheap to repair or replace.


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  #7  
Old 01-03-2013, 09:49 PM
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Did you make it for heat treat only? Or do you have plans to forge?
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:27 AM
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Only problem I see with it, besides being to close to the ground, you have no wiggle room on temperature control. You're going to burn up a lot of good steel running it that hot. Be ok for thick steel reduction, but once you get to blade sized shape, profile and thickness, you need to be able to control the temperatures much better. A larger coal forge gives you room to have areas of different more stable temps to work with. Gas fired forges are even better if built correctly.
Pretty ingenious design, but limited in use. Have fun playing with it, but don't expect quality results.


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  #9  
Old 01-04-2013, 09:20 PM
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Crex- this puppy will work fine for HT 1084 if Im still in this hobby at the end of 2013 Ill get a paragon I just cant justify 1500 for it right now and as far as sending them out for HT its a waste I seem to be getting great results doing it myself with 1075 and 1084 Ill keep doing the same until I feel I ready to move up then Ill invest more.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:00 AM
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Even though 1084 is a "simpler" steel to learn and HT, it still has parameters on temp and quench. Just like any good blade steel, if it's too hot before and during quench the grain growth will be large and the blade will be inferior. 1084 has a "critical temp" just like all the rest.

Judging color by eye while looking into a flaring fire is iffy at best especially on thin material like a blade. Too easy to misjudge and over heat the thinner areas like the cutting edge, the most critical part of the blade.
Now if you can figure a way to set a section of 3" or 4" iron pipe across the heat source and make a temporary "oven" to regulate the heat evenly then you can be more accurate with visual temp judgement. Remember that a magnet is just letting you know that you are approaching quenching heat not that you are there.
Have you tested your blades for results? Not just cutting and brass rod flexing but break a few off in several sections. Take a good look at the grain structure. Are you consistant end to end and edge to spine? Are the breaks clean and straight (tighter the grain cleaner and straighter the break)? Is the broken surface like velvet or do you see grain definition? (should look like fine grey velvet).
Don't get me wrong here, if you are getting excellent results then good for you. It's just that very few new bladesmiths get this right starting out and even fewer are honest with themselves on what they think they are accomplishing. I know nobody likes breaking something they just spent time making, but it's a lot easier and quicker to do that than to repair a broken reputation from poor quality work......doesn't matter if you are selling or just giving them away.
So simple to remedy on the front end while still learning the basics.


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  #11  
Old 01-05-2013, 09:04 AM
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Crex- No I havent tested to the degree you mentioned, but now you have me more curious.
I will try the pipe oven deal with the mini forge. I tried it with a 10'' 3/16ths square pipe tube in a wood forced air fire and it would not get hot enough. I wound up removing the blade and placing it on the coals. I use a laser temp gun up close, it seems to give accurate readings.

I dont understand why more people dont buy electric ovens (paragons) seems to be a foolproof way to go.I take it, it takes the guess work out of it? I see many posts where long time knifemakers send blades out to HT. Thanks for the good info you guys have helped me a ton so far.
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  #12  
Old 01-05-2013, 09:29 AM
metal99 metal99 is offline
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I have been thinking about trying the iron pipe idea for a while now. I made myself a "V" forge that's 18" long. It works pretty good but just like any coal/charcoal forge it is really easy to over heat the edge. Maybe one day I can afford an oven but until then it's the old school method.

How much was your temp gun?


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Old 01-05-2013, 10:49 AM
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Temp gun was 99.00 @ sears it says the range goes to 1400 degress but I've seen almost 1600 with it.
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  #14  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:28 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Yup, a Paragon or other furnace does take the guesswork out of heat treating. It also allows you to hold a specific temperature for a specific length of time which is something the more complex alloys require.

Temp guns aren't quite good enough for what we need since the temp readings usually don't go high enough. When you operate one of those guns at the extreme end of it's range you're probably getting a less than accurate reading. All that being the case, for the same $100 you can buy a pyrometer like the one I have. It has a laser built in that's good up to about 1000 F (about as far as that technology is reliable) and it also accepts a thermocouple probe that's good to about 2300 or a bit more. A better tool for the same money ...


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Old 01-05-2013, 07:42 PM
metal99 metal99 is offline
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G's I thought a pyrometer would be a lot more then that! So if you used an iron pipe inside the forge could you mount the probe inside the pipe to get an accurate reading?


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